Host and "Movement Meteorologist" Ejeris Dixon, welcomes writer and strategist Kenyon Farrow.
Kenyon Farrow a long-term writer and movement strategist joins Ejeris on the Fascism Barometer to discuss the history of fascist and authoritarian politics in the United States. Kenyon also lays out some ideas on how we can get out of this mess, including what actions individuals, movement organizations, and elected officials should play in the short and long term.
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Ejeris: [00:00:00] I am lucky to be in community with a lot of geniuses and Kenyon is definitely one of my favorites. And if I'm honest, before I met Kenyon in a meeting or at a protest, I'm pretty sure we met on the dance floor, um, back, um, when, or if Kenyon's still, still, um, still doing some DJing. So KenyonFarrow is a prolific writer.
editor and strategist, whose work has spanned public health, infectious disease, racial, gender, and economic justice, organizing narrative strategy, prisons, policing, and lesbian, gay, bisexual, trans, and queer issues. Kenyon's currently the communications director with AVAC, and he's one of the greatest at Team Tell It Like It Is.
He gets us organized, reoriented, grounded, and motivated. Thank you so much for coming on, friend, and welcome to the Fascism Barometer.
Kenyon: It's my pleasure to be here. It's so good to see you.
Ejeris: So good to see you too. [00:01:00] so as you probably know, this whole project for me was a chance for us to talk about fascism and the rising power of what's happening with the right wing, but in a way that we can talk to all of our folks. There have been ways when, I don't know, I'm listening to. my podcasts are talking about things with my own family.
And I realized that they're against what's happening, but also not quite fully present with the conversation. And so I'm wondering when you are talking about fascism to the people in your life, how do you define it? And why does it matter that we're talking about it these days?
Kenyon: I think the way that I really talk about fascism is, talking about the kind of total, takeover of, government, systems by, usually a party, within a government. obviously we use the term Nazi because it was the Nationalist Socialist Party, which is what Nazi is short for.
We often [00:02:00] forget. so it's about a party that ultimately takes over. All of the government, control and functions, to, its own ends, and usually through, violence and coercion as a way to maintain control and power over people in a, particular country or geography.
And, uh, I think that's Kind of the primary way I think about, fascism, and I think it's important, for us to talk about now because, we are under the, what is Unequivocally a fascist regime that has taken over the U. S. Federal government. And I think that for a lot of people who have been, fed a lot of the kind of American myth making that, fascism couldn't happen here.
This is the most democratic country in the world. This is the greatest country in the world, that understanding, how these things actually happen in real time, [00:03:00] is really important for people to understand, really to understand where we are right now in this current moment and to respond, with that knowledge.
Ejeris: And recognizing we're both within and from queer and trans communities of color. what are the kinds of conversations you've been having about fascism with our folks, as we're recognizing the kind of shifts in the political conditions and terrain?
Kenyon: Well, I think one of the easiest ways for people to think about this moment as fascist, I think, first of all, is just to talk about, a coup that has happened, right? And if we connect actually what happened in, 2020 on January 6th with what we're seeing today, that this is a continuous project and process, right?
So in the January 6th, example where, Donald Trump called for, quote unquote patriots, which is often how fascism is framed, that the people who are in favor of [00:04:00] A sort of totalitarian, fascist, authoritarian takeover are the patriots, right? And everybody else is sort of outside of that and somehow against, country or kind of anti patriots.
So that's often the frame. So we understand. What happened January 6th, which I think every people understand as an attempted coup that happened that day with bringing all these people to the Capitol, people try to literally storm the Capitol and stop, the certification of the 2020 elections.
so then we most people kind of Get that particularly, black and brown folks I talked to the most, they understand that was an attempted coup. I think what people. Often they'll miss or what I've been having conversations is understanding what we've seen, since, this election as just a continuation of that.
But with a slightly different strategy. So they failed at, not certifying the results of the election and [00:05:00] 2021. But what they did instead. So once, Musk pumped, a quarter of a billion dollars into, Trump's election campaign.
Number one, number two, once the, election actually happened, instead of, marching people on the Capitol, what they did was just do this sort of quiet takeover. And that's where Doge comes into play. So instead of, a mass based people marching on the Capitol, They just empowered, created a fake government agency, right?
Which it exists and has real power because it has been given power essentially, but we know that government agencies are supposed to be approved by Congress. Money gets appropriated for their budgets. That didn't happen here. And so Elon Musk empowered a group of, Mostly young, tech bros to march into these offices and demand access to, all sorts of data, people's personal data, people's tax and [00:06:00] financial information and information.
That's, private, right? With or, you know, certainly within the context of these larger systems. And so we understand that, what happened January 6, 2021 was just 1. 0 that what we're seeing now is just a quieter strategy, but actually has been much more consequential than even what happened January.
So helping people draw that connection that these weren't 2 separate actual events that they never actually stopped planning a strategy here. And now they were successful. And sometimes I will make also for people who know even what happened in, yo often use as the kind of fascism Hitler and the Nazi party the first time, right?
Th iterations before an In very similar ways by the what would have been considered the more kind of centrist liberals which when our case would be a lot of the Democratic Party who did not fight and withstand them, they actually [00:07:00] the sort of centrist, liberals within the German government also hated the socialists, right?
They hated the left. And so that's why the Nazis attacked the socialists first, and then because you had a kind of centrist, political regime that didn't actually think that was a bad idea until they took over the country and then created the catastrophe that we now know as the Holocaust and the other things that happened in Germany.
And so helping people understand using just those as examples and not to say what we're experiencing is the exact same, but to see the kind of historical parallels and to understand that this didn't happen in Germany overnight and it didn't happen here overnight. And we're now in the midst of that moment.
Ejeris: Yeah, I really agree with you. Um, I have a dear friend, Tarsa Ramos, who was also on the pod, who talked about how the United States created the blueprint for European fascism. And so there's this piece where there's a lot of folks [00:08:00] who are almost seeing that this is new, right? All of a sudden MAGA showed up.
Maybe they just showed up for January 6th. Maybe people weren't tracking what's happening. But I think there's a lot of information about how you can draw like a through line, one through the history of the United States. And iteration, you can you can think about segregationists, white segregationists losing power um, in the 60s or so rebranding themselves as Christian nationalists and then creating their own type of uh, strategy.
To build power over decades to be able to not only take over state legislatures, take over this government, remake the government and to try to make the country and the society and their own image of who should be in charge. And I'm really curious for people who are grappling with some of those things you've said that American myth making who, who are like isn't this the [00:09:00] heart of democracy?
Didn't we teach democracy to the world. How did this even happen here? How do you talk about the history and the strategy of far right movements in in this day? And how did they get this much power?
Kenyon: I think, there's been kind of a meme circulating social media in the last week uh, and I wish I knew the person who initiated it, but making the clear argument that they wish that Americans understood that slavery and Jim Crow were in fact fascist projects, right?
So we're not Right. We somehow miss the experience of black and indigenous folks, I would add to that kind of takeover of one's Lives livelihoods and your own bodies, right? Um, As a fascist project, but to be more, specific. Yeah, what we're seeing is really the result of we're now arrived at the fantasy of the right wing in the United States [00:10:00] for.
At least 60 years, right? Some of which actually started in the wake of the New Deal in the 1930s. But certainly by the time you get to the 1960s after, you know, the Civil Rights Act is passed is all this, legislation, you know, to ultimately protect rights. particularly black folks in terms of their ability to vote and ability to access public accommodations, right?
Which is a lot of the Civil Rights Act, you know, kind of framing. And then the establishment, also in the 60s of Medicaid and Medicare and these sort of social safety net programs programs. And, all through Lyndon B. Johnson's War on Poverty. So these things are coming together. So there's a way in which the new writers, they were called in the 1960s, began to kind of see, A, just the gains of Black folks through the Civil Rights Movement uh, and the kind of anti racist legislation that happened as a result to give black people more, you know, kind of [00:11:00] access to, you know, the economy and to take care of themselves, right?
And have access to public services that they were not allowed to have access to before. So that's 1 piece. And then the other piece of it is just the actual social safety net programs that are are socialist in nature. And I think we have to stop.
Pretending like they're not. And we, you know, too much of the Democrats over the course of the last 50 years run away from any inclination that like, Medicaid or social security or Medicare are, part of what a social democracy does for its people. We have to stop running from that but they certainly ran.
So you had those two dynamics. And then you also obviously had the women's movement that comes and then the gay liberation movement, you know, after Stonewall. So they see both the gains of these kind of oppressed groups in America as problematic and see that the states moving to protect and provide access to [00:12:00] resources for those same protected groups as also part of the problem.
So then you have a kind of confluence of things where you have you know, the part of the new right that's framing their concerns around fiscal conservatism. Right. And uh, you know, talking about we don't need to government doesn't need to spend money on these programs for, you people who don't Deserve it or don't work as hard, right?
So that's one piece of it. The second piece of it is the growth of the kind of right wing think tanks, the, you know, American Enterprise Institute focus on the family, all those kind of things.
Ejeris: Foundation.
Kenyon: Heritage Foundation exactly that kind of come about also in the 60s and 70s and some in the early 80s as the kind of primary kind of, theoretical and policymaking shops that are a part of the right wing, and then you have all of that also tied to this kind of growing right wing Christian movement that also happens in the [00:13:00] 1970s and also because of television begin to get these like television networks and these sort of shows where they're able to actually reach people in the, morning in the middle of the day, really.
with these messages about Jesus and Christ. But I also super tied to these fiscal conservative as well as just racist, homophobic and misogynist sort of cultural dynamics. And so those things come together in the 1970s. And ultimately, Ronald Reagan's election in 1980 was essentially the comeuppance of the new right.
It was the moment where they, won their first real national, election. And that election really changed the trajectory of this country. And we've been moving right wing ever since Ronald Reagan as a country.
Ejeris: Goodness. that is a whole word. Thank you. this piece around Jim Crow and slavery and the treatment of indigenous folks. I remember reading in prequel and Rachel matters prequel where she talks about how the [00:14:00] Nazis actually came to study how many Native Americans didn't become citizens until the 1920s and from a sense of the Nazis were really interested in how do you?
decitizen eyes a population. Or um, there's all these ways that people have thought of the Ku Klux Klan and their parallels to the brown shirts and all of these different pieces. And this history of continuous right wing power and what I really love about your answer is that you also talk about infrastructure.
And when I'm talking about infrastructure, I mean, okay, so there were activist groups and there were infrastructure. think tanks. And then there are also folks who move this into the political parties. There's media work that happened. There's all these ways that there's this right wing ecosystem building over time towards this takeover.
I'm wondering if you feel like there is that same type of structure and strategy happening on the [00:15:00] left. And, And if not, like why isn't there?
Kenyon: Yeah. It is, and it isn't happening on the left and it's happening at a different scale and with some slightly different challenges. What I think has happened, on the left is not as though the left doesn't, you know, have think tanks and doesn't have a you know, more kind of progressive, religious, kind of faith based institutions and set of work as well as elected officials right, who are, you know, also empowered and then also, just grassroots organizing organizations.
I think what happened. With the left is a couple of different things. So one of which is I'll go back to even Toronto Reagan's election that there was and I have you talked to a lot of older lefties who are, you know, of age at that point will tell you that there were a lot of leftists, including a lot of black leftists, black radicals who thought, Oh, I'll vote for Reagan.
Not because I think that [00:16:00] Reagan is, should be president. But because I think that if we elect somebody at that point who was so beyond the pale in terms of right wing, that's the thing I don't understand about the Democrats now who continue to talk about. We need more Republicans like Reagan at the time when people Reagan made people panic because his actual politics were so right wing that people were very alarmed, but you had some level of leftists who thought well, we elect Reagan, then things will be so bad, economically, culturally, politically for folks, then the masses will rise up.
Ejeris: Oh, goodness.
Kenyon: Well,
Ejeris: I'm waiting.
Kenyon: What we got instead was Miami Vice and you know, you know, all these other, right wing pro cop. drug war cultural like, and then HIV, you know, comes along and the level of homophobia and, and, [00:17:00] and hatred of, of, of Haitians and, and, drug users and a range of things that also that brought on just move the country further to the right, as opposed to create.
So I think that was one of the early dynamics that happened in the left that I think went left as we say
Ejeris: When the
we, when the left went left.
Kenyon: but it didn't. That didn't work. Um, So that was one piece. I think the other thing is that there was just such violent dismantling of the parts of the left that I think actually would have performed differently.
So, So to me, the fact that, you know, you had, they certainly were not perfect in a lot of ways, but the Black Panther Party, who, there were at least factions within that were pushing a pro feminist, a pro queer, pro gay, you know, and the parlance at the time way of thinking about racial justice.
And also, we're very much not just interested in disruption, but we're also doing things like running political candidates, right?[00:18:00]
Ejeris: yeah
Kenyon: Uh,
also engaging with the at one point, the Nixon administration and got the Nixon administration to fund more sickle cell research, right? So there's ways in which the Black Panther Party, as radical as they were, also organized very practically to get very practical things to people, particularly to black folks, right?
And also organizing multiracial coalitions, right? With other kinds of movements. But that part of the left was violently dismantled. And what was allowed to stand, particularly from the black community's perspective were the more cultural nationalist groups, the, you know, the kind of Afro centric groups, the, the nation of Islam and et cetera.
Which, have some level of militancy, but ultimately what they're calling for are things that often are not in conflict with the kind of U. S. project, only different in terms of race. So, You have, a certain kind of like, misogyny and homophobia and a kind of vision of the black [00:19:00] community and a very kind of, that's not distinct from what the religious right wanted in terms of nuclear family and kind of, Promoting heterosexuality and, anti abortion and all these other sort of elements.
Ejeris: And you can also have that like black capitalist element
Kenyon: absolutely.
Ejeris: well. So like capitalism is also a way and therefore they cannot challenge like this, dismantling of, policy that's actually connected to democratic socialism or yeah.
Kenyon: right. Thank you. So absolutely that point. And so part of what happens in the 1980s is that we don't actually have. The left that would've been in place to actually respond to the new Right. And Neoconservatism was actually violently dismantled. And so I, that's where I give the left some leeway because we actually were, disassembled right.
In a by that point to a large extent. I think that's true. So some of the other dynamics I think, that have made the kind of response on the left very different is. One, our, level of [00:20:00] philanthropic sort of funding of organizing and work, is anybody who's worked in a nonprofit knows can be very um, funders really can drive strategies and us, foundations are money that rich people,
Ejeris: Rich people use for their tax
Kenyon: distribute exactly for their tax breaks that oftentimes philanthropy is concerned about and actually can be coercive around what are the political projects that organizations are addressing.
I mean, to having worked in the HIV movement for a long time, you know, we're seeing it. In that space, because you know that you can barely get a conversation around drug pricing and those kinds of issues out of a lot of, you know, U. S. based HIV organizations because Gilead Sciences is the biggest funder of LGBT and HIV work in the United States at this point.
And so people will. Not say that it's really, [00:21:00] impacting their strategy and the kinds of policy prescriptions they're willing to fight for. But it ultimately does. And so I think like, that's been a dynamic. So even being able to get kinds of leftist really, you know, kind of radical work moving when you're relying on funders who are often frightened of, certain kinds of work.
Uh, They also change strategy every few years. So getting consistent. Investment in work is difficult. And, those are some of the other dynamics that I think have changed. The left. And also I will say that the left's relationship to electoral politics, some of it has been a dynamic of leftists who are.
Not just like anti state in a way, but actually ambivalent about power.
Ejeris: Yes. Yes.
Kenyon: lack of actually wanting to engage in certain kinds of policy fights as a mobilizing and organizing tactic, but also to actually try to win. [00:22:00] actual things for people or to actually seize control over institutions, right?
Like, So that level of thinking among the American left has been subsumed by a certain level of the left that is I'm not going to say apolitical, but not, but ambivalent about engaging in politics that also are about not just dismantling institutions, but actually trying to seize control of them.
Ejeris: Yes. And like building power and governing power and all of those types of things.
Kenyon: yeah. So I think those are some of the dynamics that have made moving a more mass based kind of left, movements more difficult now.
Ejeris: I really see everything that you're saying coming together. So when you were talking about the violent dismantling of the left, people talk about that as a project called COINTELPRO and we can put something on our, our resource list for people to understand more with that. was, but it was a project through the FBI, through J.
Edgar Hoover's FBI in particular, to eliminate a black Messiah. And we've talked about this and it also [00:23:00] targeted and violently targeted and jailed and murdered some of our most powerful leaders. So it also makes sense that then if you have this rise in the eighties of Reagan, but also the left like if you remove the people who were most thinking about power building and remove their ability to train other people.
To mentor people with the left starts to learn that maybe that these types of fights are too dangerous now. And that may not be a way that people are consciously thinking, but it can be a way that people are shrinking away from it. Another thing that you were talking about around funding is how much of the funding does not allow you to actually engage In forms of electoral politics, which people don't know, which is like a thing that it's about nonprofit status and all of these pieces.
And that, that work also then is harder to sustain in certain ways. And then we start to then connect that with that ambivalence about power building, a lack of knowledge around power building, or even people thinking well, a new [00:24:00] world will just emerge, as opposed to, we actually have to be the people to.
Usher it in. We have to be the people to organize folks to usher it in. And in this moment, you've been releasing these fabulous videos on Instagram um, that I'm calling the Democrats need to get some backbone, which I think is a direct quote from you.
Kenyon: Yeah,
Say that.
Ejeris: and and I think that this piece that I would love for you to talk more about them as we're also thinking about this drop leftists like this kind of accommodationist strategy that the Democrats have.
I saw a poll today that talked about how young people both hate what's happening with MAGA. And dislike the Democrats. And so I'm just really, it feels like MAGA is running circles around the Democrats. And MAGA is also running circles around and has silenced their own Republican opponents. [00:25:00] And I'm just trying to like, how do you explain the approaches of the Democrats versus MAGA and what would you want to see?
out of the Democrats or even like leftists, electoral officials.
Kenyon: Sure. So I think the maggot piece first. So I think that the difference with mega is so we consider mega really starting during Barack Obama's presidency. So what was called the tea
Ejeris: Tea Party. Yep.
Kenyon: was just straight up white nationalists, disguised as concerns about the economy and very similar to like disguise around the price of eggs
Ejeris: Mm hmm.
Kenyon: So some of it was really just mobilized around racial resentment that a black man as middle of the road.
Ejeris: Mm hmm. Obama's presidency was policy wise was a threat to their vision of the country, right? And so the Republicans actually brought those [00:26:00] people into the party, right? They actually.
Kenyon: Use them. They actually resourced them and began to that. You know, the right already had some level of infrastructure visa V. Fox News and some of the media outlets, but that just expanded with the growth of this sort of new mobilized base tied also with social media, because there were and it was a time when, I would see things that like right wing people would do on social media, you know, say like 10, 15 years ago, and it was always so terrible.
It was just like, so whack. And now they're better at it than the Democrats are right. And that's the part that people don't. They actually have gotten their act together and are actually better at it respect. So one, the Republicans brought those folks in and empowered them and then started to help them get elected.
And the difference is so we've seen these reports just even in the last couple of weeks of these meetings that the Democrats Senate and House, some House members are having about how to deal with [00:27:00] this current moment. And one of the things that they're saying is, you know, we have to stop listening to these ultra left,
you know, Organizations and activists. And I'm like, are you really listening? Because we, because nothing I want has come out of y'all
Ejeris: Nope. Nope.
Kenyon: alone,
Ejeris: Y'all been ignoring us forever.
Kenyon: Yeah, right. y'all promised 15 minimum wage
vote. You promised a passage of the of the uh, John Lewis act to, kind of protect vote and expand kind of voting rights laws.
The, George Floyd act, right? Limited as it was, but to try to deal with some level of police violence, those things were submitted once and then not returned to ever again. And the right right. stays on mission. I don't care. They have stayed on the same mission for 60 years, right? At least 60 years.
They have not budged from it. So project 2025 was just an articulation of the things they have been saying since the 1960s.
Ejeris: Yes.
Kenyon: And so [00:28:00] the Democrats essentially run. scared of of, the left as they see it. But what has also happened is, frankly, the country has moved to the left on a lot of policy issues.
That the Democrats that should be their purview and should be their mission, but they continue to drop the ball on. And so a lot of those people who are disaffected either just don't vote at all now. Or some of them have actually moved to Trumpism because it's at least disruptive, right? And so, so I hear a lot of people who say, particularly a lot of black folks are saying, you know, this, you know, certainly Trumpism, a whole bunch of it is racism and racial resentment and Homophobia and transphobia and whatnot.
Absolutely. But I also think that we also have to be, to also recognize that a lot of those folks, sure, racist, sexist, a range of things, but also just are fed [00:29:00] up with you know, voting for Democrats who say one thing and then
Ejeris: And do another.
Kenyon: follow through. And even if they lose the battle, stay in the game, right?
Like, Stay on message, stay on the fight. Democrats will say one thing and then just not do it. Like after they don't. It's too hard for them to get done. And so I think, that's like some of the dynamics that we're, you know, we're dealing with that. The essentially the Democratic Party has actually decided to to disempower the more.
progressive wing of the party, even, the few members who I would consider really leftist and purge them from the party where they can, right? And, we've seen that with Cori Bush and and Bowman and um, you know, and, and frankly, Nina Turner's run here in, in Ohio was the first inclination of this wing of purging in the way that, the way that happened.
Ejeris: Yeah. And that makes so much sense. I feel like we've seen MAGA and like a f the far right be able to actually use the [00:30:00] Republicans to move a radical agenda and it goes in the face of things I remember learning in political science classes like, federal politics is inherent compromise.
It's always going to be middle of the road policy and all of these pieces that it feels like the Democrats are playing an old game. And listening to messages that aren't accurate. And I, I heard a strategist even say, yeah, the Republicans move people to where they want to go. And the Democrats like like, um, use polls to not do much.
so usually in these times, the goal for organizers and activists,
it's like we need to push our elected officials. Further left, we need to show up for the policies that we want and one of my, my favorite things whenever you're in an organizing space or an activist space is that you keep us really grounded and you tell it like it is, and you tell us what our marching orders are.
So what do you think social justice movements and people who are against what's happening [00:31:00] with MAGA should be focusing on short term and long term?
Kenyon: So short term, I think there's a couple of things. I actually think that some of what we're seeing now is really great and helpful in that there are mobilizations happening around the country, right? Which uh, you know, the mainstream media is Refusing to cover. I'll just say very bluntly because they could if they wanted to or were interested.
But I think that those kinds of mobilizations are important. I think we also have to and I know a lot of people don't want to do this, but because there are so many people who. Word trumpets and are seeing, even if it's out of their own self interest, the ways in which they have been lied to based on his, cutting, benefits for veterans or, or even other folks who rely on various kinds of safety net benefits that
Ejeris: high.
Kenyon: yeah, or, that It's not going to be everybody's role because not [00:32:00] everybody wants to deal with those people, but I do think we need off ramps for those people and ways to bring those people to say, okay, so you realize they lied to you about that. Now, let's talk about what else they lied to you about.
Right. And all this, the your, the reason why, the country's infrastructure is crumbling. And the reason why, there are, massive opioid deaths in some parts of the country, or there's, you know, you're underemployed or rent is so high, it's not because of immigrants, it's not black people, it's not, trans people trying to go to the bathroom or play sports or whatever, and then walk people through what has happened in the, you know, so I think we need In the short term ways to bring those folks who are falling out of MAGA into something else right and not just say well, see, we told you that was going to happen.
That is like, I get it. I get that's the
Ejeris: I feel it so deeply, but it's not the move.
Kenyon: but it's but right, but we are going to need some level of of empathy and ways to [00:33:00] bring people into some other movement. The other thing I think people need to do um, as a sort of short and long term, but I do think that we actually are going to have to really think.
About electoral politics, right? In a different way. I think one of the things I saw immediately after November's election was some person on, you know, one of the social media platforms arguing that, He thought that, several of the, like lefties, so like the Green Party, the Working Families Party and like DSA should think about merging.
I'm like, okay, so at least that's a good, that's an idea that we
Ejeris: that's an idea.
Kenyon: Let, that's an idea. What would that mean in terms of creating some other of larger, more resourced infrastructure? through which to move electoral politics. That isn't just funneling people into the Democratic Party, which I'm also happy to see people are beginning to raise this critique with Bernie Sanders.
It's like, you know, like you're saying all the right things in terms of a lot of the right things in terms [00:34:00] of, the problems of the Democratic Party. And yet A lot of your energy is ultimately focused on getting us to stay in the Democratic Party as like the left. And is that really the right move at this point?
So I, you know, I think that's part of it. and then ultimately it's really about, it's going to be about organization, mobilization, and also people figuring out ways To work across various kinds of whether racial, regional gender and some level of ideological differences, right?
Like we're, you know, fighting fascism is going to require a different set of relationships than, fighting neoliberals, right? And I, And I, and and I think we need to also be clear. about our distinctions between these different, because I hear people saying that everybody's fascist. I'm like well, you
Ejeris: Yeah. Yeah.
Everybody
Kenyon: some of these people are actually fascists and some of them are neocons and some of them are neoliberals.
And we actually have to understand the difference between [00:35:00] them and difference between where these there are fissures, even as they have captured the sort of zeitgeist, they're. Fishers among like the tech bros and the religious, right? People are not at all in the same. And so how do we exploit those fissures within that coalition that make it less effective.
Right. I think those are some of the things I'm, I'm thinking about in terms of strategy now.
Ejeris: Kenyon, thank you so much. Everything you've said has been amazing and clear and sharp and also new. So I'm so excited that we've had you on the barometer. I'm so excited to continue to watch what you're doing on social media and in all of your political work. And to also let people know how to like, are there ways that you want people to be able to keep in touch with you?
Kenyon: Yeah. I mean, I'm, you can follow me kind of on all the things as you know, just at Kenyon Farrow. I'm real basic. Google that or look that up in any of the social platforms and connect with me [00:36:00] there.
Ejeris: thank you so much, Kenyon. Thank you so much for joining us at the barometer and um, we're excited to stay in touch.