Host and "Movement Meteorologist" Ejeris Dixon welcomes Maurice Mitchell, the National Director of the Working Families Party.
In this powerful episode of The Fascism Barometer, host Ejeris Dixon welcomes Maurice Mitchell, the National Director of the Working Families Party, for a conversation that dissects rising fascism through a compelling and relatable metaphor: the family cookout. Together, they explore what it means when someone seizes power simply because they can, and how everyday people can push back through collective action. From the failures of the liberal rulebook to the urgent need for a unified "no" coalition—and ultimately, a shared vision for liberation—this episode dives deep into how strategy, solidarity, and joy can fuel a multiracial working-class movement.
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Intro Music by Meklit Hadero
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Ejeris: [00:00:00] I'm so excited to welcome Maurice Mitchell to the Fascism Barometer. Mo is a nationally recognized political strategist and visionary leader in the movement for Black Lives raised by Caribbean working class parents. He began organizing as a teenager and has never stopped. And in the wake of the police murder of Mike Brown, he relocated to Ferguson and helped build the movement for Black Lives.
In 2018, Mo took the helm of the Working Families Party, where he is applying his passion and experience to make the Working Families party the political home for the multiracial working class movement. Now, I've had the pleasure of organizing in some of the same circles as Mo and I must say, his grasp of political strategy, his integrity, his love, and his love for the people.
It's palpable and it's infectious. I couldn't think of someone better to help us puzzle our way from the times that we're in towards liberation. So Mo welcome, welcome to the Fascism Barometer.
Moe: Oh, it's so good to be here with you, [00:01:00] friend.
Ejeris: So good. So where we usually like to start is to just think about how we're describing fascism. So we're at the cookout and a family member wants you to describe, um, fascism to them and why it matters to our communities. How do you, how would you usually talk about it?
Moe: All right. So if we're at, at a cookout, right, we might be in a park, right? Um, and there's like rules that, that there's rules like govern the park. Um, you know, so, um, and there'll be other, like, there'll be other people at the park, right? Maybe there'll be some people playing ball. There'll be other families with other
Ejeris: dominoes happening.
Moe: dominoes.
And strangely, everybody abides by the rules. There's no cops enforcing it. There's no like. Park police like breathing down our neck, we just kind of all follow the rules. That's how parks work. That's [00:02:00] why parks are, are wonderful. But imagine if, um, while we're at the cookout, somebody came to our cookout and commandeered the grill and they were just like, uh, the hell with these rules.
Ejeris: Yeah.
Moe: I'm taking over your family cookout and I'm doing it because I can, because I'm bigger, I'm stronger and it is what it is.
Ejeris: Yeah.
Moe: Alright, so that is a fascist takeover of the
Ejeris: Of the family cookout.
Moe: right? And the only thing that prevent, that prevented the fascist takeover was the fact that we kinda all like abide by these rules.
Now if you. If you wanna think about who a fascist is, A fascist is somebody that understands that the rules are just in our head and Mike makes right? So if I, if I wanna come in and steal [00:03:00] your food at the cookout, I can. If you wanna understand who a liberal is, a liberal is somebody who's focused on the rules and they focus on the rules and they're like, the rules will save us at the end of the day.
And if you wanna understand somebody who's on the left, people on the left are like, we need more parks.
Ejeris: yeah.
Moe: And every family should be able to have cookouts and, and, and everybody should have access to food and fun and, and, um, and common spaces like parks, right?
Ejeris: yes, yes. No, I agree. It's this. It's this piece where, and then I would add that what stops the fascist at the cookout? Is the family, right? It's all of us at the cookout, right? It's all of us banding together, recognizing that this person can come in and take over the rules. And then we've got that liberal who is like, oh my God, what do I do?
IE the Democrats, [00:04:00] right? And, and then, and, and the, the goal is then about what are we gonna do at the cookout to stop the fascist takeover?
Moe: that's right. That's right. The, the rules aren't gonna save us.
Ejeris: The rules aren't gonna save
Moe: But, but we could save us. 'cause if we all get together, right? Instead of just clutching our pearls and hoping, oh my God, they just took over, they took over our cookout, they eaten our ribs. Right? But we actually get together and we collectively, even if that one person might be bigger than us, they're not bigger than all of us, right?
That is the collective action of organizing. That's what, you know, people like me. I really just like organizing my religion. I believed in the power of the people, which is, which is, if you say that you're. Part of the quote unquote left. That is one of the things that everybody, regardless of what part of the quote unquote left you are part of you.
Or you should believe the power of the people [00:05:00] is actually where all the power is derived. And if the people could come together, the people could move history in their direction and overcome even the biggest, baddest fascist.
Ejeris: yeah. And there's that piece that you're also talking about around when you have the power, you can make the rules,
Moe: That's right.
Ejeris: And you, when you have the power, you can change the rules. Um, and that the rules in some ways are guidelines, but we are figuring out, in finding even more so that the rules are not facts.
Um, and they're not static. Um, and so. Uh, forgive me for being gendered, but I've been, in my head, I've been thinking about this conversation. I've been like, you know, as long as I, as I've known you, you've kind of been like a man with a plan. And I am, I'm really interested in distilling what, how you are thinking about strategy right now.
Like, we're in this [00:06:00] moment of rising authoritarianism and fascism, um, at Working Families Party and also in movement spaces for working class communities, for marginalized communities. We've got a, a lot of really tough stuff to hold. We have everything bad that's coming and the world that we want. So how are you kind of holding that space and, and guiding people towards, um, kind of stopping fascism, but also building liberation?
Moe: Sure. Absolutely. Okay. Well, all right, so let's think about it like this. The Trump administration, they are currently doing, engaging in this strategy that they call flood the zone,
Ejeris: Yep.
Moe: is basically they have some fascist spaghetti and they're throwing it against the wall and see what, seeing what sticks.
Right. Um, and we're experiencing that. It's been a hundred [00:07:00] days, and almost every single day there's new executive orders, right. New, you know, like the, the president does have this power to sign these executive orders, right? Their power is limited, by the way. Right. So he's. Trying to act like he's a king.
He is like, I'm signing these executive orders. And it's like, well, the power's limited, right? But signing the executive orders and their executive orders on schools and colleges and nonprofits and this and that and the other, um, they're engaging in this trade policy that is affecting all types of people.
They're firing all these employees and all these different government agencies, and it's, um, it's affecting all different types of people. So what they've done with their flood the zone strategy, what they've, what they wanted to do was confuse us, disregulate us, disorient us, so that we wouldn't know if up was down or down, was up.
They could get as much of their agenda [00:08:00] done as quick as possible and move faster than the courts, faster than our organizing, faster than the press. That's why they're doing what they're doing. They know what they're doing. They know that the stuff that they're doing is against the law. They know it's unconstitutional.
They know it hurts people. That's why they're trying to move as fast as possible. Now, there is a problem in their embedded, in their strategy, which is when you flood the zone, you hit everybody. Right? And there's a lot of people who are hurt, upset, confused, angry, pissed off. And it's not just one group of people.
So it's not just people who have been historically marginalized, although we're getting the, the brunt of it. It's not just the president's political opponents, although. The president's political opponents are, are getting at as well. It's also Midwestern [00:09:00] farmers. A lot of them are, were see themselves as Republicans.
They're getting some of it. It's everybody who cares about Medicaid or Medicare, which is a lot of people, which includes a lot of people in quote unquote red states or red counties. Right? It's the people who live in a rural community where the public school is like such an important institution for everything that they do.
It's so, it's so many people. And one of the evidence, one of the proof points that the Flood the zone strategy is creating a, a new sort of interesting opportunity for solidarity is that when, when we had mobilizations on April 5th. So many people came out from so many places, right? It wasn't everybody, but it was 1300 actions all across the country and the world, [00:10:00] and like 3.5 million people.
And if you looked at the signs, it was about everything it, you know, from the war in Gaza to Medicaid to abortion to, 'cause everybody had a righteous claim to be pissed off against Trump, right? And so, and the other thing is, the other, the other ingredient I want to add on top of this is that a lot of this is being fast tracked because the richest person on the planet, Elon Musk, who I have to remind people, um, he isn't a self-made billionaire.
He's somebody who was born. Into wealth in apartheid South Africa through, you know, the exploitation of emerald mines. That's where the wealth came from.
Ejeris: [00:11:00] Minds,
Moe: right? So like that's who he is. Um, because he is the richest person on the planet, he could afford to spend close to $300 million on the election, which he did, so that he could capture the US government, which he has right now.
It's unmasked, unmasked, you know, oligarchy, which is the most uncomfortable world to use, which basically means rule of the rule of the wealthy, right? It's unmasked like the wealthy have always had undue power, but now it's like mask off, right? And people don't like that. A lot of people don't like that.
So what's the point of me saying all that? This is an opportunity for uncommon solidarity of everyday people across all different types of difference. And that solidarity is gonna look like a coalition based on the things we don't like.
Ejeris: [00:12:00] Yeah.
Moe: Right? It's like, no, no, no. Right. Even in the, you know, in the, the name of the, the hands off protest, it was like, hands off veta.
Ejeris: Yep. Hands off. Where there's like the no Kings protest that just happened. Yeah. Like, yep.
Moe: No, no, no. And we do need to build a broad no movement, which is about all the, all the horrible things we don't want to happen.
Ejeris: Yep.
Moe: And that is part of the mission. And it, it's, it's one of the most urgent things we could do right now is to, based on people's legitimate.
Concerns and gripes and quarrels with this administration. Say, look, at the end of the day, there's like, I don't know, a few thousand billionaires. There's as much, there's as many billionaires in this world that could fit in like a medium sized, like high school, right? If I'm, like, if I'm talking to you, you're not one of them,
Ejeris: Yeah.
Moe: [00:13:00] right?
Um, so we're on the same team, so let's figure out how we get together so that these billionaires don't come for all of our money and all of our power, right? That's kind of job. That's job number one. That is a essential but incomplete part of the mission. The other mission, and this is why it's so important that we do this because let's think about what they're about.
You know, there, there are people who voted for Donald Trump for all types of reasons, but I would argue that the main thesis of MAGA is that the system is really, really messed up. We're gonna take a wrecking ball and smash this system because the system is rigged against you and I, Donald Trump, I am your instrument,
Ejeris: Yes. I alone can save you.
Moe: I alone can save you. Right? That is like their thesis. So underneath that [00:14:00] is, to me, a, a truth. The system is rigged against everyday people and people are really frustrated with the status quo. So many people, people around the world, not just even people here, like not, there's few. Everyday people I encountered that are like, man, all of these systems run perfectly for me.
The economic system, the system of government, the like, this is like, this is great. Most people are like, what the hell?
Ejeris: Yeah.
Moe: Um, especially now after, after decades of decades of decades of a transfer of wealth and power from everyday people to the few thousand billionaires that could fit inside of a high school, right?
That's been going on for like four decades. So Donald Trump comes in and he is like, yes, you're right. You're feeling miserable. I am your instrument. I alone can, uh, save you from your misery. Okay? He's in office now. [00:15:00] The Democrats were basically, he's in office now and he's smashing the stuff. So the Democrats are basically saying.
This stuff may not be great for everybody, but it's a pretty good deal and we can improve it. It's a very different message. Right. And that message was not the popular message that was able to win over enough of the people. It was a close election, but still the, the, let's break this stuff because it's not working.
Message was the predominant message. If all we do is say no to the bad, we're still not answering the question. That's the, at the heart of the heart of everyday people, which is what can we do in order to ensure that we finally have dignity, have power are connected, and things work for us, right? And so we have an obligation to, at the same [00:16:00] time that we, we organize a no, no, no coalition that.
We, we speak to the desires of, of people about positively what we actually wanna build. And the, the one, um, upside to these fascists destroying all of these institutions and all of these systems, is that, all right, these systems did not work for us to begin with. And now that they are in tattered pieces on the floor, that gives us an opportunity to actually build new intu institutions, new systems, new ways of being, a new democracy, a new economy that actually works for us.
And if we don't take this opportunity to speak life into that, um, then what we might do is get our [00:17:00] no coalition together. There are free and fair elections, and who knows, maybe we'll win some elections, right? But the fundamental argument of the fascists will remain true. And then we win some elections, and then we have this coalition that's no coalition, that is not coherent, is not clear about what it wants.
It gets into office, and then it squanderers that opportunity to actually deliver to the, for the people. And then the people will become even more cynical, be like, yo, you were telling me all of this stuff about how bad these people are, how it's a quote unquote existential crisis for our economy and our democracy.
And they're racist, and they're sexist, and they're homophobic, and they're bad, bad, bad, bad, bad. And then we fight and we organize. And I take my small, like by $20 a month, you're telling me you're texting me. Give the $20 a month and you're saying, I gotta volunteer. And I'm, you know, I'm, I'm getting out of, [00:18:00] uh, you know, uh, my, my class and I'm going to volunteer or I'm getting out of daycare.
I'm picking my kid up and then I'm volunteering. For your organization or for you politician. Alright, y'all, y'all won, let's go. And it's incoherent. It is half measures. It is, you know, a light version of the status quo that is friendlier. And what it does is it builds a cynicism, which leads to a lot of everyday people just dropping out that I did that, done that I'm not doing it again.
Or some people being like, you guys, you guys basically you guys took advantage of my fear. So that I could fund your little organization or get your little politician elected and I'm out, I, I might as well join the right wing because at least when they get in the office, they do the stuff they talk about,
Ejeris: Yeah.
Moe: right?
So, so it's [00:19:00] actually critical as we build the no coalition, that we build a coalition that says yes to something. And the thing is, a lot of democrats have learned, I think, the wrong lesson. 'cause they're like, oh, we got beat by the right wing. So if we wanna reach all those people, those working people that, uh, we lost, then we need to like lean it to the right.
We need to start picking up some right wing ideas because those, we assume that those people went to the right. And I would say like, no, no, no, no. You're confusing what happened in this election. Most people do not think on a left. Right?
Ejeris: Yeah. And some people are even confused by like left, right, as a concept,
Moe: does that even, what does that
Ejeris: What does you mean?
Moe: like that means something coherent to people who have decided like, I'm gonna study, like I'm gonna study philosophically politics so that I [00:20:00] could locate I ideas on a left right spectrum. That's not most people like, so, so even these terms are, are like not helpful and confusing.
Most people who live in the world do not live on that spectrum. A lot of people, some people voted for Donald Trump because they are white Christian nationalists. A lot of people did that. There's a lot of different reasons why people vote. I mean, I, I talked to some people, I, I talked to some black people who voted for Donald Trump and they're not white Christian nationalists.
They have a very different understanding of him and a lot of people who voted that way don't think about, don't think about it like I'm voting. I've, I've moved to the right, or like I'm voting for the Republicans. Donald Trump is a personality onto them himself. And, and when they're voting for MAGA or Trump, they're voting for an idea.
And that idea is different for a lot of people. But what, what's at the core of it for, for people [00:21:00] is strength. Clarity, right. Um, doing what you're saying, say you say you're going to do, and, and action and, and challenging the status quo and challenging the elites. And it's strange because he is an elite, but that is, is for some people what they were doing.
And so when a billionaire is unmasked, this is a opportunity for us to say we need a government by forum with working people. And against these. Crazy unaccountable billionaires and, and we can't say, well, there's good billionaires and bad billionaires. We need to be super clear about that. And we need to articulate when we get, when we get governing power as everyday people, what, what we're actually going to build.
We need to be able to say, in the richest country, in the history [00:22:00] of countries, we actually have the tools today to abolish poverty. Poverty doesn't have to exist. It's a, it's a political choice, right? We, we know this, this is not theoretical. We know this because even during the Biden administration, they, they were able to pass the child tax credit and the child tax credit.
It worked, it was very effective and it put it, haled child poverty, just put boom, boom half, right? If we could half child poverty by like passing some law that most people don't, don't even know happened. We could eliminate poverty in general. We could just, we could do it right. We need a movement that could speak that plane.
Like, oh, housing. Yeah. The problem with housing is, is the problem with housing and the, the, the root of, of both homelessness and the fact that you, you can't afford to own a home or to, to rent in the community. Want to rent it. The, the root of that is that we do not have a [00:23:00] steady supply as working people of excellent, affordable housing.
And we can, we can, it is a political choice, right? And right now the real estate lobby and these Uber corporations, some of y'all might be living in a building or living in a place that's not even owned by a landlord. It's owned by some like random corporation. And like you, I mean. I've lived in places that actually had a landlord that actually had a super, you might be living one of those places where it's like you can't really contact anybody anymore.
You have to like,
Ejeris: Yep.
Moe: you have to send a
Ejeris: you do all the repair you. Yeah.
Moe: through a portal, and then they send, you know, it's like there's some like, you know, uh, center someplace that's offshore that is like, you know, those, because those corporations, um, are, are buying up, um, real estate and, and because, uh, hedge funds are buying up [00:24:00] real estate and because the real estate lobby has its foot on the neck of local politicians, that's why we can't have affordable housing.
Right. So what would it, what would it look like if there was a movement of people who are like, look by hooka, by crook over our dead bodies, we're going to ensure that with all of the resources that we currently have, we're gonna build millions and millions and millions of units of. Beautiful, affordable housing so our, our people could, could live dignified lives.
Ejeris: Yeah.
Moe: Um, instead of like, well, we can't because of this or whatever. We'll do this.
Ejeris: And this piece. So let me, let me walk back for you a little bit of, um, just what you said. You really talked about. Part of the goal is the no coalition, right? And this piece around solidarity, which really means like, how do people who have all of these different but aligned interests show up together?
Right? And, um, I don't know. I'm thinking about sports. So that's our defense, right? Um, and then in terms [00:25:00] of our offense, it's what's the world we want? What is the form of governance? We want the institutions, we need that deliver for working people, that deliver for all of us. Um, and, and as many, you know, some sports teams win only defensively, some win only offensively, but mostly they, they need both, right?
Like they need, they need both to work. Um, I'm really curious about how, like you've, you've spoken to this piece around how many people are disillusioned right now.
Moe: Mm-hmm.
Ejeris: How many people feel like, uh, left, right, Democrat, Republican, these the same. They both don't listen to me.
Moe: Yep.
Ejeris: And, um, a little bit of like, what you gonna do for me politics.
Um, but I also know that like, working Families party is like, I'm trying to understand more like, do you all see yourselves as a separate, independent [00:26:00] third party? Or, because I also know that like, there, there are times where you'll, um, endorse different candidates, different democratic candidates who also probably have some of the same problems you've already outlined here.
Right. And I know that, you know, it's, there are shades of gray there and there's nuance in all of this, but for our people who are like, I could get behind something different, but are you different? Like, what, what do you say to
Moe: great. Great question. Alright. Um, the short answer is yes and I'll describe how we're different and in some, in some ways, um, because we live in the world that we live in, we have to cook what we have in the kit. Kit. We have to cook what we have in the kitchen. Um, as, um, even as we have very, very distinct way of thinking about like, or we have a very distinct recipe, right?
Like, so [00:27:00] what makes us different? The thing that makes us different is that we are grassroots, which means from the bottom up. Right? Um, so I'm the national director of the Working Families Party, but I'm not like king of working families party land. Right. Um, so we,
Ejeris: Minister of Working
Moe: we, right, right. I I'm the, I'm the, I'm the party spokesperson.
So as party leader, I'm the party spokesperson and I, I, I help drive the party strategy. But on the local level, that's where the parties makes all of its decisions. And it's like a beautiful mess there. There's activists and labor unions and grassroots organizations that get together and think about the strategy.
All right, we're gonna get together. And like in New York, what's our strategy from the New York City Council? And like, what's our strategy for the New York New York's mayor's race? And like, how are we gonna get involved? There's people who are not me, who are, when I say [00:28:00] grassroots. In the city of New York County by county who are all together make up the Working Families party that have been arguing with each other, debating with each other, and working with each other on that strategy.
That's one of the things that makes us different. Um, it's not a top down party boss type of situation. There's not like some corporation could like lobby me or somebody in order to influence what happens at the Working Families Party. So that's, uh, a very intentional design because we, so you talked about, um, what, what can you do for me?
What have you done for me lately? Politics, to me, the way that you interrupt that is through that democratic approach. What I say to people is, look, it's not about what I could do for you, right? It's, it's ultimately because nobody's gonna save us. Right. No politician's gonna save us. No. [00:29:00] It's about what you are willing to do with your neighbors.
And the Working Families Party is a platform that allows you to use your energy, your time, your testimony with your neighbors in order to build real political power. Right? So I, I put it back on, on whoever's asking me who ever folding their hands, being like, well, what you gonna do? I'm like, well, what are you gonna do?
Because that's ultimately the thing that's gonna determine, determine whether or not you are going to see or live in a world that aligned with your values. It, it can't happen by ourselves as individuals, but could happen if we come together collectively. So the bottom up grassroots approach, that's how, how we're different.
Another way that we're different is that people have their different strategies. We, we don't, every four years. Like, um, popularize our party by running a presidential [00:30:00] candidate. Right? Um, because we learned from Ross Perot, who was like a billionaire and spent all this money, uh, running his own campaign and starting the reform party, and he, he, he got to like, you know, uh, I think 19% or 20%.
And so we don't think that top down approach works where it's the four year presidential can, can candidate running in order to popularize a party. We think it happens county by county, city by city, uh, state by state. So that's number one. Number two, our focus isn't about elections. Elections are just the, the main intervention.
Our focus is governing, right?
Ejeris: Okay.
Moe: And so because we actually wanna deliver, so in. The city of Philadelphia, where there's two at large working families party, city council people, the city of Philadelphia, the city of Philadelphia is a two two party city Democrats working family party. We were [00:31:00] able, through Kendra Brooks to secure eviction protection during COVID 'cause they were trying to kick people out on the streets even though people were sheltering in place.
And those evictions, eviction protections prevented landlords from kicking people out. And then we were able to make them permanent. And so one of the critical things that most people are, are facing is there's a real affordability issue around housing. And a lot of people are losing their homes or getting kicked out or getting evicted.
And so th there's a, there's a graph that has all the major cities and their evictions are going up. And then Philadelphia boom. Because. The governing project that is the Working Families Party in Philadelphia right now, because we live in the world as it is, we're organizing to change the world in, in significant ways and change the rules.
We talked about the rules [00:32:00] earlier, so we want more reforms that allow for third parties like ourselves to exist in more places. We want fusion voting, and I don't want to go into a whole lecture on fusion voting, but it just gives more space for, for third parties. We want multi-member districts, which is a whole other thing that you could Google if you on on your
Ejeris: put some resources down in the website, um, to let people know to about fusion voting and multi. Yes. Yes. All of this.
Moe: but, but in the places where there's no fusion voting, um, mo in most of the country, there's no multi-member districts. Uh, so we primarily. Run people inside of the Democratic Party and we recruit people to primary Democrats to keep the old Democrat out because they are way too corporate or they are way too entitled and they're not li listening to their people to bring a new voice in.
And we recruit [00:33:00] people from labor unions or just everyday folks to, to, to work on the local level. In fact, we have this big drive to recruit a thousand working class candidates over the next two years. Um, and that's one way that we work, right? And again, cooking what we, what we have in the kitchen,
Ejeris: So it's like a little bit of an infiltration plan.
Moe: yes.
So we do a little bit of that. Like I said, in Philly, because of the, the rules in Philly, we actually could run independent working families, party people in city council. So we do a little bit of that. We also do some of that in, in, uh, Connecticut. Um, we. We endorse a lot of people. Sometimes we endorse regular schmegular, not exciting candidates at all.
Right? And there we have a logic to that, right? In order to govern, you need a majority in whatever state legislature or Congress. So to get, to get, um, [00:34:00] let's say to, to get Summer Lee in a position where she could govern. Summer Lee is a working families endorsed, independent con congressional leader in the city of Pittsburgh.
We love summer. In order to get her to a governing position in the current system as it exists, Democrats need to have a majority in the house. So we might, we might endorse somebody who's kind of regular Ari, well, not because we're in love with them, but because we want summer to govern, right? We. Are nimble.
We do all types of things in order to get to a position where our people can govern. Um, and so I would say, if you wanna understand us, we believe that pragmatism, which simply means knowing how to get shit done, is essential if you want progress, right? And if you, if you want [00:35:00] a very, very radical vision of the world, you need to have a plan to get from point A to point B.
Point A is a system that none of us thinks operates very well. Point B is a marginally better situation. Point C is the world we wanna live in, and we need the step-by-step manual to make that happen. And so that is in, that is in our DNA. Um, people have different strategies, people might. Approach that and say like, no, no, no, I want it now.
And I think by declaring what I want now as loudly as possible is how I get there. We, we actually think that you have to have a, you have to read the manual and follow the steps. Uh, there, there are steps, but you have to follow the steps if you want. Build the, the, you know, if you wanna build the IKEA bench of liberation, you gotta, you gotta follow the steps, right?
And so I think that that is, is fundamental to our approach. We are non delusional in our third [00:36:00] party approach. Um, we feel like we've learned from the different third party experiments, um, you know, every party and every organization has a plan. And I think it's important, uh, for everybody who is building a party or building a political plan, or is running for any office.
You should ask them what is your, what is your path to victory? And for us, the path to victory is step by step recruiting independent people on the local level, on the state level, and over time overwhelming the system through really smart people focused governing.
Ejeris: I love that. Um, I'm thinking about the accountability mechanism, especially as you all are building power, right? Um, so when you're in the process of recruiting more and more like either like Yeah. Working families, party candidates, people who are aligned with your vision, people who can kind of push, um, different kind of [00:37:00] Yeah.
Different politicians left. When, when you end up in the position of endorsing a candidate who is then not following up on the promise,
Moe: Oh yeah. Yeah.
Ejeris: right. When they are ignoring the politics politic. When I'm sure and you, you know, I'm sure there are times where the working families party has felt taken for granted.
Moe: Yeah.
Ejeris: Like all of us have felt taken for granted. Um, whether it's by, by by, by politicians in general, right? There's this expectation like, black people vote like this, or working, people vote like this, or there's no need.
So in these times where so many people feel unheard and you're in this kind of in between space of building power, how do you all also, um, like, uh, yeah, what [00:38:00] accountability types of conver, I'm assuming there's, you know, there are the public facing conversations and there may be some quieter conversations and you don't have to say nothing, but the, the question is, does Yeah.
Like what does accountability look like for all the politicians who ignore us?
Moe: That's a great question and I think it, it, it, it depends, right? So, um, but I'll say this, all political parties have carrots and sticks in order to hold people accountable, right? Um, that's kind of like the point of a political party. It's a, you know, the actual elected officials are members of the political party and the political party's kind of like a disciplinary organization to keep people in a certain direction.
And, um, we, we lean into the carrots because a lot of our folks are first time candidates and, [00:39:00] um, you know, people who don't have a lot of means and are trying to do their best, honestly. Um, and oftentimes when they run a foul of, um. Folks in the community or people in the coalition. It's, it's generally almost nine times out of 10, um, honest sort of issues that we could resolve through having like direct and real and hard conversations.
Um, but sometimes it's, it's because we, we didn't have enough carrots in place. It's like, yeah, I said this thing and people are mad at me. And if I was like an establishment politician and I had all of these like resources behind me and all of these like communication supports or whatever, I wouldn't have said that thing, but I didn't.
And so I said that thing and I know people are mad at me, but like we needed that carrot and we had the conversation and we're gonna figure out how to support that person with the right talking points so they [00:40:00] don't get on the live mic and say the thing that people are like, ah, we feel betrayed by you, like nine times outta 10.
It really is that. I think, you know, when I, when I think about accountability, I feel like we often think about punitive accountability. But, you know, I'm, I try to work out more. Accountability is also like the positive accountability of like, you know, having like an accountability partner that's like, Hey, did you, did you complete your workout?
Great, great job, right? Um, we need a lot of that for our politicians and our elected officials on our side. We need a lot of that. They often feel super isolated. Imagine if you were like a labor organizer or a parent or whatever, and now you're a city council person and everybody on the city council thinks you are lame and they don't like you because you won't join their reindeer games of being like, you know, regular politicians and you are choosing to be this [00:41:00] independent.
It could feel really lonely, right? And so. A lot of it, a lot of for us is like supporting the people in there so that they don't make those errors. Now there are examples of egregious people that we got into office and that we gave the WFP endorsement and sometimes we rescind it and sometimes we primary them.
That has happened. Uh, there's this guy, David Soars, we got him elected, uh, Albany da. He was the independent, progressive DA person candidate. He won because he won. It led to the ending of the Rockefeller drug laws, some great victory for working family's party, but over time he became the establishment person and he was one of our own.
And eventually we needed to primary him and we primaried him twice. And you know, last year we defeated him.
Ejeris: [00:42:00] Okay.
Moe: and so, um. We are willing to, um, have people pay the ultimate price.
Ejeris: Yes. Yes.
Moe: but, um, but also oftentimes it really, what's required is like some really clear and, and serious conversations inside that coalition, right?
Um, and so yeah, accountability, it looks very different. Um, but, you know, it's so critical, um, that we talk about what accountability has to look like. Um, and we have real talk with each other. And also, um, it's important that when our people, you know, our people are human and, um, even the, uh, even people with the best, you know, the best ends could make some public mistakes.
I. I think it's important when those people really are our [00:43:00] people, that we create a path for them to learn in public and not feel like once I've aired, I'm, I'm, I'm out the, I'm out the coalition. Right? We, we gotta, we gotta make sure that people, um, who are taking public risk as, as community minded, elected of officials, feel like they could stay inside the coalition when sometimes those public risks don't always work out.
Ejeris: That makes sense to me. That makes sense. So we're in action space. I have been hearing from our listeners they're interested in deepening their organizing. It sounds like people power is essential to the mission for Working Families Party. What suggestions do you have for people to take action either in working families party or beyond?
Moe: Well, I. If you have your phone, you probably do because it's 2025 and your phone is probably [00:44:00] always somewhere in there. Yes. You, you could, if you wanna stay connected to the Working Families Party, you could text my name, text Mo, the 3 0 4 0 3, and that'll just put you on the list and you could get more information.
If you're hearing this and you're like, you know what? I wanna run for school board, I wanna run for water board, I wanna run for a city council, then you should, you should do that, and we will help you. And we're recruiting. And if you're a working person, if you're a everyday working person, then we wanna talk to you.
We're recruiting a thousand working people to run on the local level. And um, it's important that I say that because I don't want you running for Congress if you've never governed. Right. I want, I want you running for school board. I want you running. You know, there's, there's so many elective offices, there's library boards, there's fire districts, there's run for that.[00:45:00]
And that stuff really matters. We'll help you, um, people could text the word run to 3 0 4, 0 3, and then we will contact you. We will give you the support, we will give you the training, um, and hopefully the confidence to run. We need as many everyday working people to, to actually govern, uh, with us. Um, so those are two ways, and once you're in the pipeline, once you're in the wp, there's so many things that, that you could do with your time, uh, from I just have a few hours.
Great. If you have a few hours, um, join the phone bank. What we're doing right now is we are calling the constituents of sitting Republican. Congress, people who live in these quote unquote purple districts, these districts that aren't super, super, super, uh, Republican, right? They, they still need to talk to independents and Democrats to get elected.
We are lighting them up, right? We are lighting them up. So what we [00:46:00] do is like, we call their constituents. I, I'll call another regular person who lives in that district and I'll be like, Hey, do you know your congress person ain't shit? And they're like, oh God, they ain't shit. It's like, yes, them right now,
Ejeris: Or they're like, I've been waiting for your call. I know they ain't shit.
Moe: y'all.
I know they ain't shit. Yeah. It's like, tell me something new. It's like, what do I do? It's like, well, you do go to their town hall or, so we're, we're doing that as well in order to fire up people who live in those districts and, and would love to plug you into that. And that's just if you have an hour or two.
So there's so many things you could do from running for office to calling another working person who lives in a a, a Republican district. Uh, of, of a, of a sitting elected official. That ain't shit. There's a lot of eight shit elected officials. So it's a lot of work to do all over the country. Um, and we're happy to help facilitate that.
You know, the, the thing that I'll say is that in terms of action, I do think we could defeat, I know we could defeat these [00:47:00] folks because historically when authoritarians of big, bad fascists have taken over the cookout, right? The people have come together and defeated them. And we do. Our mandate is a big one.
We have to build the, the largest, broadest, most diverse, most leaderful movement in our country's history against these folks. And we can, we could do it. Um, it, but it requires the people who are listening to decide, all right, I'm not just listening for entertainment. I'm not just a consumer of interesting ideas.
I'm an agent of change. I in my own way am gonna take action and I, in my own way, am gonna lead. Right? And that means I'm responsible for the people who think I'm influential. I'm responsible for the people who listen to me, and I'm gonna make sure that they know what time it is. Right. Everybody, everybody does that.
Oh, [00:48:00] it it, man, that, that bully, by the time they re, by the time they got that rib ready to,
Ejeris: They're, they're surrounded. They are surrounded. They're surrounded by all of us. Mo this has been an amazing time. I'm so grateful you gave us a masterclass in strategy. You talked to us about governing power, which we haven't gotten to actually dig into, which I think is really critical. And you've, you've told us how we kick the fascist out, the cookout.
Um, everyone on the fascism Barometer, um, wants to see themselves as a part of the anti-fascist movement. And so Mo has given us all, um, some tasks and some work and, um, we're excited to continue to support and collaborate with you. And we're so grateful that you joined us.
Moe: It's been so wonderful to be, be at the cookout with you. With my, well, I'm vegan with my little,
Ejeris: Yes, we got you. The, [00:49:00] one of the, the little, those little vegan ribblets.
Moe: vegan ribblets. Thank you for allowing me to put my vegan ribblets next to your actual ribs. Thank you. Appreciate [00:50:00] [00:51:00] [00:52:00] [00:53:00] [00:54:00] [00:55:00] [00:56:00] [00:57:00] [00:58:00] [00:59:00] [01:00:00] [01:01:00] you.