Host and "Meteor Meteorologist" Ejeris Dixon welcomes education and organizer Lumumba Bandele to discuss what facism looks like through the lived experiences of Black communities in the U.S..
Host Ejeris Dixon is joined by lifelong educator and organizer, Lumumba Bandele to unpack what fascism looks like through the lived experiences of Black communities in the U.S. — and why we must recognize its current and historic manifestations. From front porch conversations in Bed-Stuy to lessons learned from global solidarity movements, Lumumba offers grounded wisdom on the victories that Black communities have won against state repression, the power of storytelling, and how Black resistance has always been both local and global.
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Podcast production by Phil Surkis
Intro Music by Meklit Hadero
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Ejeris: [00:00:00] I'm so grateful and excited to welcome Lumumba Akin Woolley Bandele to the Fascism Barometer. Lumumba is a father, husband, educator and organizer based in Bedford Stuyvesant, Brooklyn. He's currently the interim executive director of Community United for Police Reform. As a member and organizer with the Malcolm X Grassroots Movement, New York chapter Lumumba helped establish its campaign to counter police abuse and misconduct.
He also co-founded the world renowned black August hip hop project. Black August raises awareness and support for political prisoners in the United States. When organizations have struggled with their strategy shoot, when I have struggled with knowing the right way forward. Lumumba offers all of us a compassionate and wise presence reminding us all that we benefit from the wisdom of generations and often offering us the clarity that we need.
Thanks so much for joining us, friend. I'm happy to have you here.
Lumumba: Thank you so much for inviting me to be here. It's one of those [00:01:00] things why I get to be under a J slab. Yes.
Ejeris: I am happy to have you, friend. All right. So you know it's summer now. So let's say you're at a block party and you walk up on a group of your neighbors debating politics, and one of them asks you, I keep hearing this word, fascism. What does it mean? Why should it matter to people like us? how would you describe it?
Lumumba: Let's talk about the last time I've had to do that, because this is not a hypothetical question. This is literally something that, we, we end up having to do so. how I have responded to that question, particularly when I'm talking to my neighbor neighbors, not the new
Ejeris: Not the new neighbors.
Not the new
Lumumba: not the new neighbors, right?
But my folks, I usually frame this as an attack on our freedoms, and usually the response that I get was, well, damn, we ain't been free anyway. Right? So how is this different?
Ejeris: Yeah.[00:02:00]
Lumumba: And I usually say, well, if you think it's bad now. If you thought it was bad before, it is now getting worse and it's going to get much worse.
And so the conversation, well, what do you mean? We're talking about, the state actually controlling. Information that you get, the state controlling the way in which you can express your discontent, your opposition, or, other ideas that may be contrary to the state, but also actively, disrupting your ability.
Not only to have conversations about this, but to actively begin to organize around it. Right? And so this is the presence of fascism and authoritarianism. And people say, well, damn, aren't they the same? They're very close. Like one eye functions in service of the other.
Ejeris: Yeah.
Lumumba: but we are in this space now where we are rapidly, rapidly moving into fascism.
and this is also the part. Where I get into arguments with people and say, well, you know, black folks, we've been in fascism, right? They say, that's been [00:03:00] our presence. You know? I'm like, theoretically, yeah. But also, if that were the case, we wouldn't be having this conversation right now
Ejeris: Yeah. Yeah.
Lumumba: if that were the case.
So in moments in history yeah, we've, we've seen that. If we're talking about, of course, during the moments of slavery, yes. If we're talking about. even within the attacks, and know we're gonna talk about this later on, our communities that came in the form of cointelpro, that was a covert form of fascism, right?
But here we're talking about something that is overt. We're talking about creating laws, uh, changing laws, and in some case totally disregarding laws. but this is is how I, I, I attempt to explain fascism.
Ejeris: it's this really hard conversation, particularly I think black communities, native communities, immigrant communities, communities of color, because we can talk about all the repression we've experienced. And I remember I was reading. Rachel Matters prequel, where she actually talks [00:04:00] about, where the Nazis sent people to the US to study Jim Crow laws and they sent them to the US to study Jim Crow laws to implement the Nuremberg Laws in Nazi Germany. Right? And so there is this way that when people talk about, is it fascism in the us? First of all, it's not often coming from. Black communities, right? It's coming from other people measuring our own experiences, but, but then there's this piece of like, oh, well no, fascism is a European construct and it's not here.
And I'm, I'm like, well, I mean, if a Nazi takes inspiration from US laws to create what you know, to be fascism, then I would say that then, and, and I think it's like both Anne, we have had. We have a history of democracy in this country, and we have a history of fascist practices, right? Both Anne, together part and parcel.
Lumumba: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Ejeris: one of the things that I've heard from a couple of listeners [00:05:00] where they were like, oh, I never connected that Jim Crow could be fascist. I hadn't thought about that. And I was like, well, it, it, it all can look different. Like there's difference between like the fascist taking over a region or fascists being in charge of a state, but fascists in the White House, that's different and bigger. And also in terms of where our rights are and what can be dismantled, we are in new
incredibly precarious era. so. I also though think that one of the reasons why I started this podcast was 'cause I cared a lot, not only about what fascism meant, but what fascism meant from the communities that were going to be hit the hardest.
Right. Um, because I was like, well, it's not gonna hit everybody the same at the same time, you know? And so what does that mean for our safety, our ability to resist, our rights, all, all so many things.
I was like, well, that also means we have wisdom. It also means that we should have some [00:06:00] wisdom in our own histories about, resisting, kind of repression in the us.
So I'm, I'm curious about your thoughts around recognizing that there are roots of European fascism that actually they took inspiration from here. What in the histories of communities of color, in the United States, can we take. As inspiration for resisting fascism in these times?
Lumumba: You know, oftentimes. We don't recognize, I'm speaking specifically about the Black Freedom Movement, the Black Liberation Movement, depending on how you want to define it, but the Black Freedom Movement in general has impacted freedom struggles around the world. I'm gonna tell two quick stories, hopefully that will answer some of the questions.
Right. So, one, I had the opportunity to go to South Africa in 91, uh, with, at, at that time the Mayor of New York, mayor Dinkins and an amazing delegation of other people, including, Reverend Herbert Daughtry, a number of [00:07:00] journalists, Dr. Betty Shabazz. Literally just dozens of, of amazing leaders. One evening we stepped outside of the usual, itinerary and decided that we were gonna go to a nightclub.
A small group of us, Betty Shabazz was in this group. Also, we go to this nightclub, and, when we enter, Hugh Makayla is performing. For those who don't know, hug Makayla is probably the most famous musician. If not trumpeter out of South Africa, and who I think is partially responsible for, helping to explain and introduce to the world not only the horrors of apartheid, but the promises of the an anti-apartheid struggle.
I. Um, and there's a whole nother conversation we can have about the tool of art being used to dismantle apartheid, right? And in that conversation, you master kill is a key part of that. So he's performing. when he looks on the audience, he sees Dr. Betty Shabazz. Dr. Betty Shabazz, for those who may not know is the [00:08:00] wife of Elhaj and Malik El Shabazz, Malcolm X. He stops the performance and he says something. I'm not sure if it's in Corsa or Ulu, but he says something to the audience and everybody stops and looks at Betty Shabazz and they stand up and give her, I kid you not. It's got to be close to a 10 minute standing ovation. Tears and awe.
Ejeris: Ugh.
Lumumba: Now, 91. I wanna just put this in context.
Apartheid is still up.
Ejeris: Yeah.
Lumumba: Apartheid is still law in
Ejeris: yeah,
Lumumba: I raised that as a, an example to show how our Freedom Movement has not only informed, but inspired
other freedom movements around the world, right? if the Southern African people can understand the impact of the Shabazz family on their lives, right?
We understand how that freedom movement has. Gone past our borders. another story. I was talking to a, [00:09:00] um, scholar friend of mine and we were talking about the Afro-Asian solidarity. And he said something to me that I hadn't heard before and it really just like stopped me. He said he was doing some research on Ho Chi Minh, and discovered that Ho Chi Minh while being in New York City.
Was a part of Marcus Garvey's, UNIA.
Ejeris: Wow.
Lumumba: Okay. And that when he was interviewed later, much later in his years, they asked him about the strategy of the tunnels that they were using. he said he got that from the Underground Railroad.
I'm raising these as antidotes to talk about how our struggles go beyond our borders. And how these stories, the tactics, help to not just inspire and inform, but really help to give creativity to other movements around the world. So I say that to say that our [00:10:00] resistance movement also has had the ability to gain traction, to help contribute to victories around the world, not just here.
And it's very important that we recognize that because one thing that fascism does is it feeds apathy, especially when you're talking to, people who, for generations have been living under conditions where we feel like shit ain't gonna change. Like we don't know that it has changed, And you know, this idea that what's the use?
You know, so we actually have to tell these stories to help people recognize that nah, we, we, we not only moved the needle, but we got victories to talk about, to stand on.
Ejeris: Yeah,
no, it also shows this piece around, okay, so fascists could actually take inspiration from other places, but so can our resistance movements
Lumumba: percent. A hundred
percent,
Ejeris: in these times where, 'cause we talk about how there's a. It's not just about what's happening in [00:11:00] the us there's a global fascist movement. But that means also there's, the opportunities for us in solidarity, which we've been talking about a lot to increase the global resistance and how our actions inspire.
I definitely, I, I think I saw a friend say on social media recently, you know, that there's this problem with this sentiment that like. This is just the same. This is just the same. There's nothing different. and I know, you know, different as someone who I think grew up in the Black Freedom Movement,
Lumumba: Yes.
Ejeris: um, so like from, from a very young age, um, you know, what resistance looks like and what it means.
where do you think this. Like, is it, is it apathy? Is it sorrow? Like where does it come from? Where people are, set to think nothing different is happening. And, and how do we, how do we address that among our people?
Lumumba: Yeah. [00:12:00] You know, I think there are a number of things that have to happen. Part of what I've lifted up as a necessity and what I have. been leaning into, and I just mentioned a little bit before, was we have to tell the stories of our victories. And I think that, you know, as an organizer, I think apathy's one of the biggest challenges that we face, right?
If you're just doing door knocking as a tenant organizer, you know, for somebody, a family that's been living in this particular building or apartment complex, you know, for generations and nothing's changed. That apathy is, is is justified, right? It's like ain't nothing change. Why do you think now that you hear all of a sudden, you know, shit gonna change?
Ejeris: Mm-hmm.
Lumumba: But if we don't tell the stories about how things have changed, like what you did not know, then yeah, people will think that this is just an exercise in futility. so we actually have to tell the stories. I'm, I'm, I'm always being, told you, always saying the same thing. I think of 'cause it's necessary.
And that same thing is [00:13:00] that we've done the impossible before, right? We've proven the state to be a liar. One of the things that I am very proud of is our movement is specifically with respect to, the way that this state has captured, tortured and incarcerated our freedom fighters. I. they were sentenced to die in prison.
Many of them, and I'm talking specifically about people coming out of the sixties and seventies, both armed and more radical militarized formations, uh, of our Black Freedom Movement. Organizations like Revolutionary Action Movement, the Black Panther Party, the Young Lords, um, Republican, new Africa.
Those people that were captured coming out of those, those particular movements were told that they would die in prison. That they would never see the light of day. Right. Um, but there was also a narrative that the state was able to present to criminalize and demonize. In fact, not just [00:14:00] these individuals, but the movements that they came from.
Uh, and so when they were captured and sentenced, it was a huge victory by the state, you know, to be able to say, we got 'em, you know, when they captured the side of Shakur in 1973. They said, we've captured the soul of the Black Liberation Army. We've captured like the general, like the Black Liberation Army is now dead.
Right. You know, and they paraded, her photo bloodied and everything, all over news media. She was told that she would die in prison. 1979, the side of Shakur walked outta prison. Now we can talk about how that happened, right? No, she did not get paroled. No, she did not get any kind of clemency, but it was an organized and disciplined group of people who liberated her from prison.
Right. Without one shot being fired.
Ejeris: Yeah.
Lumumba: And so that became a huge embarrassment to the state because only eight [00:15:00] years ago, not even eight, six years ago, they claimed that they. Put the final nail in, in the coffin of the black liberation army of the, of the radical underground.
But here we are now, and they were able to remove her safely from a US prison. decades later, some of the people who were captured for her liberation were told that they would die in prison. We can count right now at least 14 people who were told, who had life sentences. Told that they were gonna die in prison.
They're home. We've proven the state to be liars. We've proven that we can actually reclaim this. This idea of what our freedom struggle is, is capable of. Um, and it's important to tell those stories. It's important to be able to have our, communities understand that we have done the impossible before.
People would've never imagined that Seko Dinga was gonna be walking down Fulton Street, kicking it with, you know, somebody else [00:16:00] that he was in the underground with in 72, 73. Right? But it's happened. And so I think those stories are very important to tell and all the other stories in between, you know, the role that our communities played in providing safety.
For these freedom fighters, um, the role our communities played in caring for their families, all of those things are extremely important, right? And for the organizers, we have to also learn some of the lessons 'cause the many mistakes that were made. But in terms of battling the apathy, we gotta tell the stories of our victories.
We absolutely must.
Ejeris: no, I remember, I think I was 16 when I first read. Angela Davis' autobiography, and it like blew my mind. because there's this piece under repressive conditions that the government or the state works to actually disappear. These stories disappear these victories. So that's what you'll see when people are talking about, removing these book bands, [00:17:00] right?
Or all of the. woke classes they're trying to get rid of, or the diversity and equity and inclusion, bans, right? Like they're trying to, to police how we think. They're trying to constrain the imagination around our victories. And so I think the stories are really important because they also tell us that we have been resisting and we will keep resisting.
And this is how resistance works. We talked a little bit about cointelpro, the FBI's counterintelligence program, I think when Kenyon was on a couple episodes ago. but like right now I. when the government is disappearing people based on and abducting people based on their activism
and their beliefs, and, um, saying that they are threatening to foreign policy and all of these pieces, it's, you know, just a, another form.
Of political prisoners,
like it's this generation's iteration of [00:18:00] what the, what political prisoners will look like. So I would love for you to talk about cointelpro, what it was
and, and how folks resisted it, but also how it, how it affected our movements.
Lumumba: Yeah. Well, you know, it's important to make a distinction that when we're talking about cointelpro, we are talking about a very particular program that is bookended by, I think a birth date. And according to official records and ending, but if we're talking about the tactics used and the strategy and purpose of Cointel Pro, it exists as long as the state's law enforcement agencies have existed,
So it's very important to, to make that distinction. So I, you know, I teach this community organizing class, and I have to change this up now because it actually doesn't give it the, the, the. A wake that it requires. I use, I use this call, um, cointelpro, the oops of the FBI, I call it the oops of the FBI because it was [00:19:00] the audacity of the federal government to do and to put down on paper something that they had been doing for a very long time.
But to document the objectives, the tactics, the collaborators, the targets.
Showed a very clear audacity that they felt like, well, this will never, not only come to light, but so what? We can do this. What I'm saying is as long as law enforcement has existed, there has always been a function to crush freedom movements. There's always been an overt and covert. Purpose and function of crushing freedom movements. The counterintelligence program was created by j Edgar Hoover, in his own words to disrupt, to, break down, radical organizations and to prevent the rise of a messiah similar to Malcolm X. These were his words to be clear, from the black movement [00:20:00] and other radical left.
communists specifically, communities. they listed targets. Some of the targets were, it's important to, to. Again, we learned from this know that the targets weren't the most, weren't always, or rather weren't excluded to just the most radical. So yes, we had Malcolm as a target. Yes, we had, the Black Liberation Army, the Panthers as a target.
We had, the Puerto Rican nationalists as Target. We had the Communist Party as Target. We identified those as like radical left, right? But then you also had Bayo Rustin. He also had Dr. Martin Luther King also had Coretta Scott King, right? You also had, a Philip Randolph, right? And these are probably the most center far from radical people that you could imagine, right?
And understanding that not having a radical politic will not save you. It will not save you.
Ejeris: Mm-hmm.
Lumumba: And so COINTELPRO was a program that identified [00:21:00] tactics and strategies that the FBI, um, was allowed to do in partnership with local law enforcement, state law enforcement, and city law enforcement. to meet out its objectives of preventing, the consolidation and the advancement of radical organizations and movements across the country.
some of the ways that they did that was also in partnership with media. Making sure that our movements were criminalized, making sure that our leaders were demonized, putting out false information and also helping to create and feed what was at one point. Ideological fuse, now becoming physical feud.
Right. So all of these things were actually written down, and it wasn't until some white leftist anti-war folks broke into an FBI office in Reading Pennsylvania where they actually saw these documents and was like, holy shit. They wrote down.
Ejeris: wrote this shit down.
Lumumba: They wrote it down. And things that we [00:22:00] knew already because of how the FBI had been functioning, but they had the audacity.
To write it down. And so the Church Senate hearings happened after the discovery of, of these files and the FBI had claimed to dismantle counterintelligence program. Many of those tactics are now legal and have been protected under the Patriot Act. New Patriot Act and now is just commonplace with this current administration.
And so the tactics of the COINTEL Pro continue to live.
Ejeris: Yeah, I think that's really important because sometimes people like to think of it as a past history that ended and completed and that would not return as opposed to tactics that live on under. New names, new laws. And I I also wanna just, reiterate what you said about avoiding or distancing yourself or separating yourself from radical politics won't necessarily save you.
I would love to be able to speak to the Democrats right now about that. [00:23:00] I, I, but I think there's so many people. There are people who have told me. Oh, you know, by, by using the word fascism, you're alienating an aspect of the political project or there's a conversation now with, the protests that are happening in LA
about the good protestors and the bad protestors, and I'm like, no, no matter what, tactics people are gonna use.
Lumumba: Mm-hmm.
Ejeris: Um, there was a plan to deploy the National Guard and the Marines. So there's, this piece around, Under fascism, part of our goal is the resistance is how we hold together, because it also creates all these separations. if you're not like this person, right?
If you, if we see ourselves as, as separate from the Palestinian Liberation Movement, if we see ourselves as separate from immigrant rights movements or climate movements. and so recognizing that. this [00:24:00] iteration of fascism is here with tactics of the past. what are, I'm wondering what you see as different, what is different about now that we need to address and what's not?
Lumumba: Yeah, they say there's nothing new under the sun. Um, but I think technology, you know, gives the appearance that so much is new.
Ejeris: Yeah.
Lumumba: You know, this idea of, mistaking for I think our movement, you know, follow us on social media as a base.
Those of us who've been doing base building, grassroots organizing for some time now, having to contend with people who can put out a post to 500,000 followers and get them to show up, you know, at one place means something.
Right. But we understanding that that's not base building.
Ejeris: Yeah.
Lumumba: Right, and understanding that we still have to figure out how to move our folks from gathering at one point, to shifting [00:25:00] their lens, to activating a particular, them to function in a particular, with a particular agenda, having them join a particular organization, moving in a particular way.
So technology, I think, has created opportunities to, to do that, but also has presented itself in many ways as a challenge of our ability to to function. And very similarly, you know, with the state, you know, they've been able to use technology as a way to disrupt our, our movements. when before they would have to mail out letters saying that it came from this organization targeting that organization.
Not all they have to do is go online and do a, a post. You know, I don't like e Jerry's Labs because they have a Vanguard approach.
Ejeris: Yep, yep.
Lumumba: signed Lumumba Belli. Right.
Ejeris: And Lumumba was, was, was hanging out with me at that time.
Lumumba: Right, right. You know what I mean? and so I think technology has, challenged that. like I said, it's, it's a permanent thing.
It's an opportunity and a [00:26:00] challenge. We have to figure out how to use these particular tools that we have now, to advance our, our, our work. I think the objectives of the fascist, regimes, have evolved, but they've always been in, in existence. Their strategies and their tactics have evolved. but they've always been in existence.
They've never changed. know, I think what's important to know is that these are some evil ass people, but, but they ain't stupid.
Ejeris: No. No. And not to be confused,
Lumumba: They are not stupid.
Ejeris: no. There's strategy and the evil.
Lumumba: And they're patient.
Ejeris: Mm-hmm.
Lumumba: They're patience. They have the ability to create a big tent that allows for people to unify under very specific objectives, even if they disagree on a variety of other things,
Ejeris: Yeah.
Lumumba: right?
And so it gives the appearance of like a really unified, you know, far right kind of [00:27:00] thing. But they have evolved in their tactics. Um, the objective again, has been consistent. what doesn't give people comfort, unfortunately. for some of us, it's important for us to name is this, uh.
Understanding that what we are witnessing actually is in the process of a crumbling empire. Right? but if we know what happens when empires crumble, there are a lot of casualties. I.
A lot of fatalities. You know, when Trump was elected the first time people was like, oh, don't worry about it. We've been here before.
You know, we will survive. You know, and, and I, I don't totally align with that to a large degree because not all of us will survive.
Ejeris: Yeah.
Lumumba: and we haven't really put in place a process to really deal with this understanding of what it actually means to take this on, [00:28:00] on many different fronts.
Not just ideological front, but take this on in, grassroots front, you know, and as much as we don't want to acknowledge it. But we are in a different phase now where we have to look at what, fighting formations are gonna look like,
Ejeris: no, there is there is a piece where the longer this goes on, and the more that we need to do to build the resistance, we are, we're all less safe.
Lumumba: Yes.
Ejeris: We're all less safe than we
Lumumba: Yes. A hundred percent. A hundred percent,
Ejeris: and as they consolidate power. We will be less safe, but we can build, we can build what we need. I think people are self soothing when they say, this has happened before and we survived it.
And it almost needs like a change, like this has happened before and we can defeat it.
Lumumba: Ray.
Ejeris: Like, like there's this piece where people take the action step out of it. Like the part where like you have to do something. It doesn't just, you don't just wake [00:29:00] up on like, fascism is G day and just walk outside and it's just like, oh, blessings on blessings.
Fascism is gone. Right? Like there's a, there's this active role for all of us. To stay as safe as we can In the midst of what you're saying, this collapse, um,
I'm curious about action steps. So we've got people who listen to this podcast who, this is their, the beginning of their process of, of being active.
And then we've got some people who listen, who, who, um, you know, they listen to all the political podcasts they do, and they think, so I'm thinking about what are the action steps for the kind of newer activists as you see them, and also the action steps for like the longer term organizers.
Lumumba: Yeah, there are many. I would say, for the newer ones, I would say ground yourself in an organized formation. be clear about the purpose and function of that formation. Be clear about your [00:30:00] role in that particular formation. Create a, I think a trajectory of how you want to contribute and advance the work of that particular formation and a movement in, in, in general.
and understand that it's going to take an organized effort to really make some material change. it's important also to know that in this process. This is a long term fight. You know, elders always say, this is a marathon, not a sprint. You'll be, you're tired of hearing that, but it's so true.
Ejeris: It is so true.
Lumumba: It's so true.
There are so many people who came into this, this movement with the favor and, and, and, and energy. Uh, and in, in 2020, and I'm no longer here.
Ejeris: Yeah.
Like Burnt
out quick.
Lumumba: Burn out
quick.
Right? And that's not to say anything about the opposition of what burned them out, but how do we make sure we are having a sustained effort
in this?
Right. Um, one of [00:31:00] our mentors, Sekou Dinga, who's now an ancestor, said, our job is to make sure that we show our everyday people how they can contribute to movement. I was a grown, I was born up in the organization. That created ways for your average person. My neighbor were able to figure out how they could contribute to the Black Liberation Movement.
We had people who were carpenters and I was like, I ain't no political speaker. And it was like, fine, but we actually need to build out this school. And they were able to literally hammer and nail build things and they was able to see how they were able to contribute to the development of the first contemporary black educational institution in, in central Brooklyn.
Non-faith based. Right. And still to this day, they have ownership over what they contributed, what their hands actually helped to contribute. Educators, people who were like I, I can teach young people how to read, but I don't have a political analysis that show up. That's fine. Can you educate our young [00:32:00] people, right?
People who were cooks like, I don't know. I can do this. Dope. Can you prepare food for our children?
Ejeris: Yes.
Lumumba: You know, somebody, I got a a van. I can't do, this is dope. Can you transport my purpose? My my my reason for sharing this is there are always ways for our communities to contribute to movement. The best organizers are the ones that allow people to see how they can do that.
Artists, how can you contribute? What are the, some of the things that you can utilize through your own creativity, your own resources that will be meaningful contributions to our movement, And it's not about trying to make you like, shift your whole world and life and do that. I, it's really meaningful, sustainable ways to contribute.
To our freedom movement, and that in itself is probably part of the most profound political education experience that people will have. When I look back [00:33:00] at what my parents were able to do, and I look at the elders that were around them, many of them were not politicized based on a speech from Malcolm, based on any of this.
They were politicized by working alongside other people who had a very clear understanding of what their little piece was going to contribute. And when they stepped back, they're able to see what they built.
Ejeris: Yes. Yes. I mean, I think you just spoke to it, Lumumba. There is the piece where for the longer term organizers to let your work be an invitation.
Lumumba: Yes.
Ejeris: Let your work be an invitation, and make room and make space for everyday people. And for our newer listeners, we put out action steps. There are, so many protests happening, organizations you can join.
Let yourself be invited
Lumumba: Yeah. Yeah,
Ejeris: invited.
Lumumba: and, and I wanna say this, also understand that we have a variety of tools in our Liberation Toolbox family.[00:34:00]
Ejeris: Yes.
Lumumba: For those of you who are not feeling protests, cool. There's so many other tools in that toolbox. Y'all grab one. Create one. Right? We have so many tools. I'm sorry. I just have to say that.
Ejeris: No, that's perfect. 'cause there is this piece where we need to make sure people understand that there is a space for them, right? Just like you were saying. Mumba, I don't think you could have said it better. We, we went from history. We went to South Africa, we went, we went around the world. we, talked about all these different pieces.
and I'm so, I'm so grateful for you spending time with us at the Fascism Barometer and to share your wisdom with all of the Fascism Barometer community. So thank you so much for being here.
Lumumba: Thank you for all of what you have done and continue to do for this platform. Understanding that I. this platform is a part of a very particular strategy to move our folks forward, and so thank you for doing this. and thank you for being you
Ejeris: Thank you