Host and "Movement Meteorologist" Ejeris Dixon welcomes back author and strategist Alicia Garza for part two of their conversation about a "recipe for liberation".
In our season finale, host Ejeris Dixon welcomes organizer, author, and strategist Alicia Garza back to finish the conversation on power, and what it takes to beat fascist politics. Alicia lays out a practical “recipe for liberation”: from deepening political education, to building community while rooting the work in love. She argues that while a small amount of people may be unmoved, the vast majority is persuadable. Also, Ejeris reflects on Season 2 of The Fascism Barometer, reminding us about what we've learned, and reviewing concrete action steps we can take to resist fascism and build a powerful resistance.
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The following is presented to you in “Around Sound.” It was recorded with whatever was lying around.
Alicia
“What I will say is, the opportunity here is to fight like hell, to pivot out of this. And many, many countries have done this pivot, and actually ended up with something better than what they started with. And I think we need to be oriented in that way.”
Ejeris
Hi, friends. Welcome to The Fascism Barometer. I'm Ejeris Dixon, your movement meteorologist.
And The Barometer is an educational project where we learn together what fascism is, how to stay safe, and how to create democracy and liberation for us all. As a black queer feminist, I exist at the intersections of communities that fascists see as the enemy. And for so many years, I have deeply desired a way for us to understand and measure the threat of fascism and how it impacts all of us.
In each episode, we work to learn what fascism is and what we can do about it, from the perspectives of each of our guests. And as barometers measure pressure, we unpack the pressure that fascism puts on all of us. So this is our last episode of season two.
And as I'm looking at the Fascism Barometer today, its reading continues to be very high. At the time of this recording, the government shutdown continues. And at its heart, there's a critical fight happening in Congress around access to affordable health care.
And hanging in the balance are over a million government workers who aren't being paid, and 42 million people who stand to lose their SNAP benefits. Now, SNAP stands for Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program benefits, and they're used to support people to purchase food. The regime continues to murder people in boats in the Caribbean Sea and the Pacific Ocean without consequences.
There are proposals from the Health and Human Services Agency that would block all Medicaid and Medicare funding for any services at hospitals that provide gender-affirming care for young people. And that would have devastating consequences. And the violence of ICE raids, arrests, shooting, and National Guard deployments continue across the country.
And recently, there have been orders for the National Guard to prepare quick reaction forces in all 50 states for what they're saying is for riot control. By January 1st, 2026. So yes, the Fascism Barometer is really high.
But we are also seeing so many of you getting active from defending your neighbors from raids to providing food assistance to protesting the regime to recruiting and activating the people you know against rising fascism. So yeah, fascism is rising, but so is the resistance. I know that we can navigate this storm, and I believe we will come out the other side, but we're going to need all of us.
And as we've said before, fascism is best fought with massive amounts of people power. And that's what we're building together. Thank you for listening and joining our movements.
This week's conversation on fascism features part two of a two-part interview with the incredible Alicia Garza, where we talk about rising fascism, her recipe for liberation, and how we survive and build a better system in this seeming season finale of the United States.
Very excited to welcome Alicia Garza back to The Fascism Barometer. Now, things were so juicy our last episode that we had to have her back to continue our previous conversation for our season finale. Now, about Alicia.
You know her, you love her. An author, political strategist, organizer, cheeseburger enthusiast, Alicia was the founder of Black Futures Lab in 2018, the co-creator of #BlackLivesMatter and the Black Lives Matter Global Network, and the current Senior Vice President for Movement, Infrastructure and Explorations at the Freedom Together Foundation. Welcome back, friend.
Alicia
Thanks, Boo. Happy to be here.
Ejeris
We're happy to have you. So last time we talked, we really got into so much about the landscape, how we're doing, what we can do better. And we were just starting to have conversations around power.
You know a little bit about power, you might have written a book on it. Maybe. So in 2020, in your book, The Purpose of Power: How We Come Together When We Fall Apart, you wrote, and I quote, “the rise of fascist politics in America is dangerous and will have implications into the next decade.”
But it's 2025 now. So does that mean we're like almost done? Halfway over?
Alicia
I mean, Lord, I hope so, because wow, look, first of all, shout out to me.
Ejeris
I know, I was like, for all of us that have published that fascism was a problem many years ago.
Alicia
You know, shout out to us. So no, it doesn't mean that we're like halfway through, but it could. So when I wrote that book, I was trying to point toward for like regular people who are not organizers and activists, how do you understand what's going on and why should you care and what can you do about it?
And when I was talking about the rise of fascist politics being dangerous, I was really kind of looking forward, not like in excitement, but looking forward to this moment and trying to project for us what was coming so that we didn't get here. But that's all right.
Ejeris
You know, sometimes we learn the lesson the hard way.
Alicia
You know, my mom used to say, a hard head makes a soft behind. So that's where we are. That's where we are.
And what I will say is the opportunity here is to fight like hell to pivot out of this. And many, many countries have done this pivot and actually ended up with something better than what they started with. And I think we need to be oriented in that way.
You know, this is the season finale of this place called America. And what we get to decide now is, what's the spinoff? What's the spinoff? Who's going to be the cast of characters? And the bad news is that our opposition is thinking the same thing. So, it really is like drag race, right?
Like, we got to figure out what is the country that we want and what is the political system that we want. And we got to start talking about that with everybody. And engaging the 360 million people in this country around this question.
There's probably about, I don't know, let's assume that there's like 20% of the country that is unmovable. That means there's 80% of the country that is trying to figure out what is the alternative. And so, it's an excellent opportunity for us right now to be talking in real time about what is the government we want, how do we want to be in this country, and start standing some stuff up and fighting for that vision.
And if you're an activist or you're an organizer, you may have thought about that as like a 50 year project. It's actually like a 10 month project. We really got to get it popped in and get it cracked in.
The other thing I'll say here though is – on the fascist politics piece – we have an opportunity right now to be full throated about the kind of country that we want to be. And the world is looking to us right now.
Right now they're looking at us like, y'all was already kind of wack, but you'd have lost your damn mind.
Ejeris
Yeah. Like what are you doing?
Alicia
Like what are y'all doing? But also the rest of the world knows that this entire country is diverse and complex. And the world knows that there are social movements in this country that are fighting for democracy, that are fighting for equality, that are fighting for justice.
And they are looking to us, right? Not just to indicate what direction we're gonna go in, but also to join with them. As we talked about last time, what's happening in this country has happened in many other countries around the world.
It is a social movement of its own. And we have an opportunity to make our mark on history. So part of how I think we need to do that is not just by learning lessons from other countries around the world who have fought for and won a new and better democracy, but an opportunity to be a part of a global community in a way that we haven't been the best at before.
So that's that on that. And the last thing I'll say is, we have an opportunity right now to really amp up our work around defending what we have fought for and won. You know, it is so strange to me to think that for someone like my mom, she could have never imagined having a black president, and that happened in her lifetime.
It's so wild to me that somebody like my grandmother could never have imagined that I could be working in a job that in her time was considered a man's job, right?
Ejeris
Yeah.
Alicia
Things change in our lifetimes.
So don't be thinking like a hundred years from now. But what I will say is what was also happening in my mom's time and my grandma's time was that nobody thought that we would have been where we are on race. And what I can say is what I mean by fascist politics, right, is like all the whack consolidation of power that we're seeing right now.
But it is also a very targeted and weaponized racial terror strategy. Yeah. We have gone through this before as a nation, and we fought back and we won an incredible expansion of rights and dignity, not just for black people, but for everybody.
And this is a moment for us to really grapple with that. What does it mean that our opposition wants to re-segregate this country? They actually want to go back to the politics of the 1880s.
And are we going to stand for that? Like, that's actually the question in front of us. You have a lot of talking heads right now saying that we went too far, right?
We were too woke, we went too far on identity, we went too far on race. There's no such thing. Every single person in this country deserves to have dignity.
Not one person more than another. That's apparently the values of this country. So I would say too, like, part of what I was trying to make a point about with that comment about fascist politics being dangerous is what we're seeing in this moment is the danger of fascist politics.
The driving of wedges between communities that should be united, the extraction of and from communities who have been marginalized for a very long time, and the use of terror and violence on those communities to consolidate power for a very small group of people, but like add to that, right, that they want to make America white again.
Ejeris
Yeah, yeah.
Alicia
This is our moment to get clear about what time it is and to do something about it. And I know we're going to get more into what we can do, but shout out to us for predicting the present. And my prediction for the future is if we get our shit together, we actually can turn this thing around.
Ejeris
I mean, I think there's this piece because of, and we talked about this last time, the long history of oppression, and the black folks, indigenous folks, so many folks in this country can also, it gives us a spidey sense around what's up. And when you were talking about re-segregating, or even the politics of 1880s, it's like I tell people all the time, both of my parents went to segregated schools their entire schooling, their entire schooling. And those are my parents.
And it's everything you're saying, it's this lie that people are told that for some people to get rights, other people have to get less. You know, and it's a lie, and it's a lie that is keeping fascists in power. And I know you said you were making up numbers, but I actually heard from two different researchers, they do not agree.
One was 13% of this country is MAGA, and the other was 21%. So, you know.
Alicia
Okay, I'm in the pocket.
Ejeris
And it's core, you're in the pocket. So we got 80% to work with.
Alicia
That's right. And that's a lot.
It's a lot. It's a lot of people and a lot of people who have different values but may have deep needs, right? May have deep needs that are valid and similar to so many of us.
Alicia
That's right.
Ejeris
So our last episode, we also talked about some good food and some recipes. And I wanted to get even more detailed in... There are a lot of assessments and I even went to something and people were like, oh, there's no way to have a plan or a plan around fascism.
And I was like, well, if we don't have a plan, then how do we get to an answer? But so what is the recipe for liberation from your perspective? And then also, how are we doing?
Alicia
Yeah.
Okay. Well, like my cooking, I rarely use measurements, so you're just gonna have to...
Ejeris
We could do a dash of this, a pinch of that.
Alicia
You know, you don't have to do it the black way. So here's my recipe for liberation. So one is consciousness and education. We are living in a country that is dumbing down the general population.
Ejeris
Yeah.
It really is our responsibility to learn. Learn history while we still have it. Understand, yeah.
Understand the implications of that history for the present. And the second part of this recipe is to use it to build a vision for the future. If you don't have a place where you're trying to go, you're just going to spin around in circles.
We really do need to figure out not just how to stay in the hope space, but how to be architects. We are being given a responsibility, as my sister Latasha says, to be the architects of a new political system. What an incredible opportunity.
But to get there, we've got to actually have a vision that is not just about what we don't want. We have to start to build that muscle of articulating, what is it that I do want and how would it work, right? The other piece of the recipe is community.
And we go nowhere alone.
Ejeris
Yeah.
Alicia
We go nowhere alone.
And so part of what is so important for liberation is not, it's not cliques, it's not cliques, it's community. And so building, strengthening, expanding your networks and getting to know people and acting in concert with those people, however you can, contributing, that is also a part of community. The next piece of the recipe is organizing.
Ejeris
Yeah.
Alicia
This is a word that people throw around a lot, but I'm just going to make it super plain, okay? Organizing is the process of what happens when people come together around a shared problem.
Ejeris
Yeah.
Alicia
And make and drive plans about what to do about it, okay? In that process, what is happening is you are being transformed, okay? You are being transformed from passive to active, and you are being transformed from character to protagonist.
So what I mean by that is you're no longer an observer, right? The process of organizing transforms you from observer to somebody who's doing something about the things that you can no longer abide by, okay? Organizing also requires an analysis of power, okay?
So, and develops a strategy, like a plan to win, that is based on how you think you can shift the balance of power. Lots of organizing right now has no strategy.
Ejeris
You gonna make somebody mad.
Alicia
So we want to change that. I'm just saying it. Organizing is not popping off on social media.
Organizing is not tearing people down for what they're not doing. Organizing is not a list of demands. Organizing is the process by which you transform people from observer to active around a strategy that shifts the balance of power and that shows people their own power.
Okay. All right. I'm not going to preach anymore, but that is like a huge piece of the recipe.
We have to organize. Now, organizing can happen in every arena, any arena, all arenas. Okay.
So you do not have to be like a scrappy activist to be an organizer. You can be a lawyer, you can be a healthcare worker, you can be a cashier at Walgreens. Everybody can organize, and every place is ripe for organizing.
I will also say that a recipe for this moment is safety. So one of the things that is really important is that we understand that by its nature, fascist regimes, they will make you less and less safe on purpose.
Ejeris
Yes.
Alicia
It's a part of their strategy to keep their power.
So what that means is that a big source of our power is taking care of each other and ourselves in clear ways. Okay, so get with your neighbors, get to know your neighbors, prepare for emergencies and disasters because they are here, and make sure that you have a way to make it another day. Okay.
There's lots of other pieces of this recipe, but I'll just share one more, which is love. A lot of funky shit is happening right now. And it is easy to be isolated, lonely, angry, and in despair.
Lots of people come into activism or organizing from a place of anger, which makes sense. There's lots of terrible things that are happening. And the only way through is being really rooted in love.
Okay. It has to permeate your vision for the future and for what we want. It has to permeate the relationships that we build with each other.
It has to permeate our organizing work. Like it has to be a part of everything. I don't mean that everything is puppies and flowers all the time, but being grounded and rooted in love helps us make choices and it helps us build things that can actually last.
Things that are built from pain and rage and anger and isolation and loneliness and fear do not last. That is what is happening to this country.
Ejeris
Yes.
Alicia
So those are some components from my recipe and put some of your own flavor on it, right? We started out this season talking about, if you got beef with people, let that shit go. Like really get clear about what's important and nothing could be more true right now.
Nothing could be more true. Lots of this stuff requires us to make different types of choices from a different place. And the choices that we make now will determine how long we're in this.
Ejeris
Yeah, you're right. You know, when you were talking about how things that are built on hate and anger are not meant to last, part of a fascist tactic is the destruction of hope and the manipulation of hope.
Alicia
That's right.
Ejeris
The destruction of hope so that people feel like they don't have power, but they cannot find power. And that even if they got everyone together, they still don't have power. And then there's the manipulation of hope, where only this person, only this leader, that's right, only I can fix it as Trump has said, right?
And as things keep happening, from the disappearances to the deployments, to these ICE shootings, you know, to these terrible court decisions, I don't have to go into all the things, the reasons to be hopeless. You know, as they flood the zone with reasons to be hopeless. And for people to feel demoralized, you know, we're going to keep it black here.
We would love your hope sermon.
Alicia
Okay.
Ejeris
We would love, like, whether it's the things you say to yourself that help you get up and keep going each day, the things you've said to others or that people have said to you, just like what is cultivating hope for you and for us?
Alicia
Let me say a quick word on how I think we're doing on the recipe, actually, because I didn't say that. And I think we are on the way, but we need to accelerate. So we got to turn on the broiler, right?
We ain't got three hours to cook this thing in the damn crock pot, okay?
Ejeris
Yep.
Alicia
So on the organizing piece, we got to really get it poppin. It is better than it was in January, but look, let me just be clear, y'all. Like that recipe is necessary for us to get out of this.
And we're doing okay on the organizing piece. We are doing interesting things around the safety pieces. We are trying to figure out our relationship to the love piece. And we are struggling on the vision piece.
Ejeris
Yeah, really struggling.
Alicia
So what is giving me hope, though, is that there is stuff in motion, and it's getting better and better by the day. So I am seeing people trying to deepen their consciousness. And I'm seeing lots of infrastructure getting built around that.
This infrastructure in particular, right? Fascism Barometer, like, this is great. And we're so happy that this resource is here.
You know, trainings on nonviolence and non-cooperation, all of those things are happening, and they're happening a lot around the country, and people are on fire. So that is great. We are seeing lots more boycott activity, which is also actually a recipe for liberation in this moment, piece of the recipe.
Lots of economic non-cooperation, right? Boycotts and, you know, turn off, cancel. Like, if there was a way to use alleged cancel culture, which I don't actually, you know, whatever, we don't have to get into all that.
This is it. So I'm seeing stuff around companies that are not only donating to fascism, but they are also upholding the policies and the practices, right? And defending them.
And those companies, right, make their money from us. And so I love seeing, right, that exertion of power that everybody can do. Literally everybody can participate.
I am also getting really hopeful about some of the ways in which people are coming into new consciousness around strategy. And what does it mean to actually change the balance of power? That is making me very happy.
We need a lot more of it. And I will say that I'm also really proud of how I'm seeing artists and entertainers step up in this moment. I had an opportunity to watch the Farm Aid concert, which is always tight, you know what I'm saying?
But they were so clear. They were like, this is not the kind of country that we want, and we deserve better. And they encouraged millions of people who are watching to stand up.
People like Doechii, who used her time on a celebrity stage, to say the real thing, as there were protests and ice raids happening right outside the doors. Okay, so I like the permeation of this and the piercing. Very hopeful and inspired by the reactivation of the committee for the First Amendment, Jane Fonda, Annie.
I mean, folk are out here like, yo, we on this. And I love that. I love that.
That makes me so, so happy. And courage really is contagious. And so the more that people stand up, the more it encourages other people to stand up and be brave enough to do so, because they know they have crew.
Remember the thing I said about community. So all of those things are giving me hope. And what is also giving me hope is that I'm actually seeing a very strong challenge to the faction that was really kind of hell bent on being like, let's just wait until the midterms and then this will all be over.
You're out of date and out of style.
Ejeris
Yes.
Alicia
And that is giving me a lot of hope. So the possibility that we could change how politics happen in this country finally is the source of hope for me. So, shout out to Working Families Party, right?
Shout out to the folks who are like, we're being serious about what it means to build a new politics in this country. Not just contrarian or just like being on the outside. That's not the goal right now, right?
The goal is about contending for power. And I'm really, really happy to see that.
Ejeris
Let me ask you a personal question. Yeah, can we go with it? Because all of this is affecting us.
On the days where you wake up, and whether it's like you see the news of some new terrible, or something you knew was coming and people, we just hadn't gotten it together in time to prevent it. How do you motivate yourself when you're, I mean, I have those days, I'm sure you've had them where you're just like, can we do this?
Alicia
I have those days a lot. And so I just want to say that because I think we should normalize it.
Ejeris
Yeah.
Alicia
There's been no change that I've ever been a part of, where I haven't had those moments where I'm like, this is not going to work. We can't do it. It's not possible.
Literally nothing. And so if I'm not feeling that way at some point, something is actually really wrong. So it is okay to feel that way.
For me, my spiritual practice is a situation. It is the thing that allows me to metabolize all of that. And literally, I'm not trying to be cheesy, but it's like stepping out on faith and just knowing.
It's cultivating that inner knowing. Like it might not work, but we gotta try. We gotta try.
And also, I'm gonna say this with this in mind because I'm old enough, you're old enough to remember that whole damn debate we had about self care and what it was and what it wasn't, and is it useful, is it not useful?
Ejeris
Or is it changing in itself and da-da-da? Oh, man.
Alicia
Remember the days when we could wax poetic about things freely on Mark Zuckerberg's internet.
Which really, really is his internet.
Ejeris
It really is.
Alicia
So I think it's really important right now to know that hope also comes from pouring into whatever it takes for you to build your endurance. The way I think about care is about filling my reservoir, so that I can keep going. I took up a practice of running many years ago, and literally taught myself using Couch to 5K, how to run long distance.
And it has done wonders for me in my movement practice. So, what I will say is, in every run, there is a point where you're just like, I cannot fucking keep going. I cannot do it. I do not want to do this. This sucks. I can't have it.
And sometimes that means keep going, and sometimes it means take a break.
Ejeris
Yeah.
Alicia
Sometimes it means walk a few steps, right? To avoid injury.
Ejeris
Yeah.
Alicia
You get really good when you're a long distance runner at trying to assess, is this something that is hurting me, or is this something that I need to overcome?
Ejeris
Yeah.
Alicia
Max used to say, you find peace in the pain. So my spiritual practice is a way that I find peace in the pain. And sometimes I actually do have to say, I gotta stop for a minute.
Ejeris
Yeah.
Alicia
I gotta stop for a minute. So here's what that looks like for me. I'm a news junkie, and I feel if I turn off the news, then I'm like being irresponsible.
Fuck that, turn off the news. Turn that shit off.
Ejeris
Turn it off.
Alicia
Turn it off, like literally turn it off. Give yourself a break. It will, well, I was gonna say it'll be there when you come back to it, but Kanye Shrug. But we will be there.
Ejeris
But we will be there.
Alicia
We will be there.
Correct. And so stuff that is draining you like that, you don't have to be a masochist in this moment. We're gonna be in this for a second.
We're gonna be in this for a second. And so knowing that, what do you need to keep going? It's not an option to stop, to turn away.
Like, that's not what we're doing. You can't go live in a tree somewhere. That's not what we're doing.
But what are the things that you need to do to be able to keep going? Even if that means taking a break, if it means doing something silly, if it means doing something that feels like not a thing you should be doing in fascism, maybe you just need to do that, so you can keep going. Last thing I'll say here is, one of my maintenance practices is rocking with serious people who are serious about what time it is and want to do serious things to address it.
I really pay attention to how I spend my time and who I spend it with. I would lovingly encourage all of us to do the same. In the previous earth.
Ejeris
Last season.
Alicia
On the last season of America, we might have been spending time on stuff that really had no impact and didn't matter. You know, people say that death changes you, okay? And you get really clear about what's important.
Okay, so this version of America is dying. It is changing all of us. Let it change us in such a way where it reorganizes us to get clear on what is important.
Which means cutting shit out that is not important. So, because I have to endure, and because I plan to be amongst the last people standing, as you should too, what that means for me is, I'm very deliberate about how I use my time and who I do it with. I do not entertain a bunch of nonsense for the sake of entertaining nonsense.
Ejeris
She does not set the rules.
Alicia
I do not. And I'm not saying that in a shady way. I'm saying it in terms of, if you knew you only had so much time left, what would you do with it?
That's what death makes you think about. Right? So if this country, as we know it, knew it, is dying, and you've only got so much time left, what are you doing with that time?
Last thing I'll say here, because I know I'd be talking. Hope is a discipline. Hope is a discipline.
And so that doesn't mean you're hopeful every day all the time. What it means is you cultivate a practice of how to come back to it. So another thing that I think is really important is like look for the big things and the small things, because there are many different ways, many small, small things every day that people are doing to resist.
And it's worth saying that that little thing that you saw, multiply that by a million, it's happening all over the place. So just remember that piece.
Ejeris
End of the season, any last words, any call to action for our Fascism Barometer community as we are pushing to stay motivated and to stay active. What should we be doing?
Alicia
We should be building our consciousness. Get studied up, get prayed up however you do that. However you do that. Get connected, get connected and stay there. And in the words of the Reverend Jesse Jackson, keep hope alive.
Ejeris
Keep hope alive, I knew it, I knew it. Look, we are blessed to have you.
Alicia
I was so good to be here. Thank you for having me.
Ejeris
Thank you for being a part of building this community, listener by listener, showing people how to be and get active, and how we can be the ones to kind of like push back against fascism. Thank you so much, love.
Alicia
Well, thank you for this resource for us. We deeply appreciate you. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Ejeris
We have learned so much together this season that we wanted to give you a quick recap of where we've been. We started the season off with Kenyon Farrow reviewing the history of US fascism.
Kenyon
I think there's been a kind of a meme circulating social media in the last week, making the clear argument that they wish that Americans understood that slavery and Jim Crow were in fact fascist projects. We somehow miss the experience of Black and Indigenous folks, I would add, to that kind of totalitarian takeover of one's lives, livelihoods and your own bodies, right? As a fascist project.
But to be more specific, yeah, what we're seeing is really the result of, if we're not arrived at the fantasy of the right wing in the United States for at least 60 years. So Project 2025 was just an articulation of the things they have been saying since the 1960s.
Ejeris
And we also had a master class in solidarity from Linda Sarsour, the executive director of Mpower Change, who taught us that we cannot be bystanders in the face of the genocide of the Palestinian people and what it looks like to keep showing up together in our movement spaces.
Linda
Thinking about a lot in the last almost 20 months of genocide, where we have failed as a movement. And there are many moments where I can point to the failures that we've had. And, you know, we are a flawed movement made up of really good and well intentioned people.
I have been in a movement for 25 years that has never requested reciprocation for the communities I come from. I will show up wherever, whenever, and I'm willing to put my body on the line for people that I don't know, because what I believe the fundamental principles that I hold are universal to everyone. And if I see people hurt and harmed, I'm going to show up.
And I feel like in this moment, there has to be some sort of decision that we make, that there's nothing that takes precedent over genocide, and especially not one that we are funding directly.
Ejeris
Our episode with Tarso Ramos spanned from his personal experiences with escaping the Brazilian dictatorship to him teaching us about some critical research on what it takes to end fascism and authoritarianism. He taught us about this 12 to 18 month window where fascists and authoritarians work to consolidate their power.
And he urged us to be timely in building a movement to oppose fascism because –
Tarso
The people who study societies where authoritarians and fascists go from being elected to fully taking over the society in consolidating their power. See, it's happening here right now faster than they've seen anywhere else in modern history. And so it feels like it's happening really quickly.
And that's, I imagine, a part because it's happening to us. It's happening here. We're observing this in some other country.
We're experiencing these changes on the regular. But it's not only a feeling. It is simply the case that it's happening faster in the United States than it's happened in other places where authoritarians and fascists have come to power through elections.
Ejeris
And yet, we know this can be overwhelming. And so, Malkia Devich-Zerl from Radical Loss, taught us about how to turn grief and despair into collective power.
Malkia
Let's get clarity. Despair can bring us closer together. It can help you understand the hurt that another human being is feeling.
Despair is not only a limit to movements, it's also an opening, a softening, a place where we can rearrange our politics. Sorrow has its uses in social movements. Now, grief, grief is not an emotion.
Grief is not a loss event. It is a reaction. It is a process to loss.
Yeah, it is a process that happens after we face a loss. If we understand grief as a process, if we understand grief as a natural evolutionary response to change, right, then we can understand that grief is something that we have some agency over. It's not something that happens to us.
Grief actually is not the harm. It's always the healing, right? Now, loss can be the harm, okay?
That's the harm. I just want to be clear. Now, grief comes in like a medicine.
Grief comes in like a healing. Grief and organizing are the same thing. Organizing is a process, a collective process, by which we move from a loss to meaning and action and change.
That's exactly what grief is.
Ejeris
Now, that was all really useful learning. But this is also an action space. So here's what our guests have been teaching us about action.
We learned from Shelby Chestnut from the Transgender Law Center on how crucial committing to collective care is to ensure solidarity with trans communities. Shelby stressed to us to understand that fascist projects aim to erase trans communities and that our movements must see ensuring safety, connection and support for trans communities as a part of all of our collective survival. Cristina Jimenez and I had an incredible conversation around solidarity for immigrant communities.
And she named that we must all work to protect immigrant communities, including accompanying people to court or ICE check-ins, recording and intervening when ICE shows up. She talked to us on the need to form neighborhood monitoring teams at schools and churches and graduations and public spaces, and the need for mutual aid support, from grocery shopping to running errands, to supporting families when a parent is detained, and sharing Know Your Rights info widely. There are so many great organizations conducting organizing and support to immigrant communities around this country, and we've listed some opportunities for you to get involved in the Resource Hub.
And this work can take a toll on our health, and fascists truly seek to exhaust us into submission. Erica Woodland, from the National Queer and Trans Therapists of Color Network, gave us some great tips on how we can prioritize how we care for ourselves so that we can care for others. Erica stressed that we focused on some key daily practices from protecting sleep and food and water, to ensuring that there are breaks within our work days, within our meetings.
Erica reminded us that basic care is the foundation for our collective strategy. And it's also important for us to keep checking in with ourselves, and having a strong sense on how we're doing, because that can get lost. And we can use tools like journaling or therapy, or other practices to track patterns and notice when we're doing well and when we're not.
And critically, we need to know our limits. We must say no when needed. And finally, I want to leave you all with a message from Maurice Moe Mitchell from the Working Families Party, who reminds us that it's all of our responsibility to end fascism.
Maurice
The thing that I'll say is that in terms of action, I do think we could defeat, I know we could defeat these folks, because historically, when authoritarians, a big bad fascists have taken over, the cookout, right? The people have come together and defeated them. And we do, our mandate is a big one.
We have to build the largest, broadest, most diverse, most leaderful movement in our country's history against these folks. And we can, we could do it. But it requires the people who are listening to decide, all right, I'm not just listening for entertainment.
I'm not just a consumer of interesting ideas. I'm an agent of change. And I, in my own way, am going to take action, and I, in my own way, am going to lead, right?
And that means I'm responsible for the people who think I'm influential. I'm responsible for the people who listen to me. And I'm going to make sure that they know what time it is, right?
Everybody, if everybody does that, man, that bully, by the time they got that rib ready to...
Ejeris
No, they're surrounded. They are surrounded. They're surrounded by all of us.
We've reached the end of today's episode. And while the pressure continues, I also feel more equipped and resourced to keep fighting fascism. And I hope you do too.
It's bittersweet for us to end the season. While we definitely need some time to plan season 3, we're going to miss sharing updates and lessons and action steps with you. Our plan is to be back in the spring of 2026, but we also have some ideas on how we can stay connected, and you can keep an eye out for those.
But thank you. Thank you for your commitment to ending rising fascism, for your dedication to learning, and for sharing this information with your friends, family and loved ones, as our listening community has quadrupled in the last year. And if there's one thing for you to remember, fighting and ending fascism is a numbers game.
We need large, vibrant, creative and courageous movements to build the society we all deserve and end fascism. So, if you haven't joined an organization or connected some folks to get involved, we implore you to do so, and soon. Our movements need everyone right now.
Please check out the resources on our website at fascismbarometer.org for action steps and for more readings. We appreciate you joining us, and we're working hard monitoring the Fascism Barometer for you. And together, we can keep fascism at bay.
Watch the skies and subscribe to this feed, and we will see you in season 3 in 2026. But don't forget, when you share this show with a friend, you've got it. You help fight fascism.
Our producer is Phil Surkis. Our theme is by McLeet Hediro. This podcast is a project of Ejerie Labs.
I am your movement meteorologist, Ejeris Dixon, and I'll see you next season on The Fascism Barometer.